LL-L "Etymology" 2005.10.03 (09) [E/German]

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From: jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2005.10.03 (01) [E/German]

Jaa, Elsie,

du schriebst:
> _koer_ - the sound a dove makes.
>
> I wonder if there is any relation to _kirre_
Genau so wird dieses Wort im Ursprung gebraucht: _gurren_ wie ein Täuber.
Ein Flirt zum Beispiel.

Und ich habe mich ein wenig intensiver mit _kirren_ befasst. Menschen
(nativ-deutschsprachig) unter dem Alter von ca. 45 kennen nur noch die
Bedeutung "nervös machen, nerven", und ab 50 aufwärts unisono die alte
Bedeutung 'anlocken. beruhigen'.

Isn't that fascinating? Like the birth of a new star or universe (naja...)-
though a horrible etymological nightmare, I'm feeling for myself!!

Kumpelmenten

Johannes "Jonny" Meibohm

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From: Luc Hellinckx <luc.hellinckx at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties"

Beste Ron,

You wrote:

> Take Etruscan words like these: _alumnathe_
> sacred society (L alumnus), _abcar_ abacus, _athre_ building (L atrium?),
> _cape_ container (L capio?), _cela_ room (L cella), _clan_ son (Celt
> clánn?), _cletram_ basin, basket (Umbrian kletra), _creice_ Greek (L
> Graecus), _cupe_ cup, _favi_ grave, vault, temple (L favissa?), _herma_
> statue (L Greek Έρμης Hermēs?), _ister_ actor (L histrio?), _lauchum_ 
> king,
> prince (L lucumō), _leu-_ lion (L leo), _man(i)_ 'the dead (L Manes), 
> _math_
> honeyed wine (Ger *met?), _mi_ I, me, _nef(t)š_ ~ _nefiš_ grandson, nephew
> (L nepos), _neri_ water (Gk νερό neró), _pachathur_ maenad, Bacchante,
> _put(h)-_ cup, vase, well (L puteus, puteal), _cutun_ ~ _cutum_ vase (Gk
> κόθων kóthon), _ratum_ according to law (L rite), _sac-_ perform a sacred
> act (L sacrus?), _suplu_ flautist (L subulo), _tut(h)i_ community, nation 
> (L
> totus? Umbrian tota? Ger thiud?), _thina_ vase, jar (L tina, Gk δίνως
> dīnos), _ulpaia_ jug (Gk ολπή olpē), _vinum_ wine (L vīnum). Note also
> suffixes like _-um_ and _-r_ found also in Latin.

The Etruscan word _math_ connects with Dutch "mede" (German "met", English 
"mead") I believe. Therefore I looked up the etymology...and: Wow, what a 
word! Cognates can be found in most Indo-European languages, and moreover in 
Finnish _mesi_, Hungarian _mez_...and even Chinese _mit_!
According to De Vries, the Chinese borrowed it from a Western language, 
somewhere around the 4th century BC; and he concludes: Oerverwantschap? 
Overname aan een derde onbekende taal?

On the other hand, it's not that surprising to find out that the word for 
"mead" is the same in so many languages, as the choice of potable beverages 
must have been quite limited. Being alcoholic, it didn't contain any germs, 
so it was safe to drink; and it could be preserved for a long time. Tea was 
maybe the only other option, but cannot be kept that long I guess.
Which makes me wonder what the Indo-European word for _tea_ must have been?

Kind greetings,

Luc Hellinckx

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Thanks a lot, Luc.

I knew about Sanskrit मधु _madhu_ but never connected all of this with 
Chinese.  What word do they mean?  Is it 密 (Mand. mì, Cant. mat6, Hakka 
met8, Wu mi?8, Minnan bi8)?  Both this and the Sanskrit word simply mean 
'honey', the Sanskrit one, however, also 'mead', 'sweet', 'delicious', etc. 
There are numerous derivations of this word in Sanskrit, and when you peruse 
them you'll notice that the base meaning is 'honey'.

Is this to allege that the Chinese did not have honey prior to the alleged 
introduction?

By the way, today's Chinese word for 'mead' is 蜂蜜酒 _fēngmìjiŭ_ ("honey bee 
brew/wine").  I don't know if this goes back a long time.  (酒 _jiŭ_, 
frequently translated as "wine," these days denotes any alcoholic drink and 
until about the Song dynasty denoted a brew of fermented grains, thus 
something more like beer.)

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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