LL-L "History" 2005.10.07 (01) [E]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
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07 October 2005 * Volume 01
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From: Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "History" 2005.10.06 (08) [E]

Hi Ron & all:

We had an example of the Domino Effect tribal migrations in this Southern
Africa too, the Difakwane, about 1820 to 1840, but to return to Eurasia, the
Mongols hit the Huns, who fled & hit the Tartars, who fled & hit the Avars,
who fled & hit the Goths, who fled & hit the Roman Empire...

My annotation of tribes is wonky, I know. I should have gone & hunted up the
list of peoples in that AS poem, 'Widsith'.

Yrs, Mark

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From: Pat Reynolds <pat at caerlas.demon.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "History" 2005.10.06 (07) [E]

Lowlands-L <lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net> Mark Dreyer writes in response to
>> When a group grew too big/overcrowded for its area, it selected a 
>> complete
>> "unit" to emigrate to pastures new. Every trade had to have one or more
>> representatives - every skills ditto - men and women. Once the people had
>> been chosen, they were equipped with every tool and resource needed and
>> then set off.
>
>Spot on! & the last time this was done (to my memory) was our Great Trek.

But you get a similar pattern with forced social/economic migration.
Take the Irish potato famine, yes, peasants and other people who
directly worked on the land migrated, but also the teachers, doctors,
lawyers, cobblers, carters and chandlers - not because all these trades
were needed in London, Liverpool  or the new world cities to which they
 migrated, but because for all of them, quality of life (a different
economic situation for the peasant than for the shopkeeper) slipped to
the extent that going became easier than staying.

Going vs staying is a different point for each of us - it's bound up
with our ontological development, and I just read an interesting book
that argued that those of us who make our childhood 'houses' _outside_
our houses - e.g. dens in woods are more likely to migrate than those of
us who make our 'houses' inside our homes - decorating our bedrooms with
posters or the colours of the local football teams (an interesting third
group make 'Houses' in their heads - they (we) don't particularly bias
to going or staying.

Cheers,

Pat

Pat Reynolds
pat at caerlas.demon.co.uk
   "It might look a bit messy now,
                    but just you come back in 500 years time"
   (T. Pratchett)

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: History

It is said that parts of what is now Northern Germany, especially some areas 
in Holstein, lost all of their populations due to migration to Britain. 
This is interesting, considering that at the same time it has been said that 
that migration was in part necessitated by population pressures, 
particularly by the inability to expand land holdings.  So it sounds like 
going from one extreme to the other.  Could "emptied out" be an 
overstatement, and it was merely a case of drastic population thinning?

Furthermore, other people are said to have gradually moved into those 
emptied-out regions.  I am not clear about where those people came from. 
Rumor has it that this change in population brought about language changes. 
Bear in mind that those regions remained Saxon-speaking.  Does this mean 
that the immigrants were Saxons also, or does it mean that there was a 
remaining population through which the local language continued, albeit 
underwent changes due to the influx?

Might population thinning in Eastern Holstein have precipitated westward 
Slavonic expansion into those regions from what are now Mecklenburg and 
Pomerania?

Do we know anything concret about the duration of migration to Britain?  I 
was under the impression that there was an initial mass migration wave 
followed by a period of gradual migration.

Any clarification would be appreciated.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron 

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