LL-L "Lexicon" 2005.09.07 (05) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeêuws)
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From: Gary Taylor <gary_taylor_98 at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L Lexicon

OK, Ron, Johnny and whoever else might be remotely
interested,

being the nerd that I am I collect dictionaries.
Therefore I have at my disposal a number of dialect
dictionaries for Low Saxon. This is what they have to
say about Taal/Tall:

Middle Low Saxon : Tal (short a)

General Low Saxon:
Sass : Tall (Tahl/Tohl)
Lindow : Tall (Taal/Tahl)

Local Low Saxon:
East Frisian : Tahl/Tall
Wöhrden : Tall (though often mistakenly
High-Germanified to Tohl - their comment)
Münsterland : Tall
Oldenburg : Tall/Tahl
Nordharz : Tahl
Helmstedt : Tahl
Mecklenburg : Tall/Tåhl/Zåhl
Mittelmärkish : Zahl
Plautdietsch : Zohl

so conclusions??? I guess the further south and east
you go the more likely you are to hear the Taal
version - probably no surprise there... The only area
where you will only hear Tall seems to be in
Münsterland, and there are a number of areas where you
won't hear Tall at all.

Gary

http://hometown.aol.com/taylor16471/myhomepage/index.html

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From: jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2005.09.06 (04) [E/LS/German

Dear Reinhard,

about LS 'Tall' vs 'Taal' and all your examples:

> When we deal with a language as a whole we need to look around, need be
> willing to accommodate dialectical variety rather than make pronouncements

> about right and wrong on the basis of our own respective little dialects
> or
> specific dialects we are familiar with.

In other words- all those real practising native speakers I mentioned (not
*writers* of the Sass-style) are wrong, he? I repeat: from Flensburg down to
Lunenburg, from Eastern Frisland to Hamburg speakers *do* use 'Taal'. A nice
little, negligible area, isn't it?

> Modern Low Saxon (e.g.):
> " upbören - aufheben" (Plattdütsch for you,
> http://www.waren-an-der-mueritz.de/plattduetsch.htm)

>> I don't know this variation

> Which ought not be taken as meaning that it doesn't exist or that its use
> is
> wrong and "Patent."
Unfair quoting! I really wrote:

"Maybe you and all the 'Wissers' read/heard something like 'uppbören' in the
sense of 'aufbürden'? I don't know this variation, but I wouldn't dare to
exclude it."

> Middle Saxon (e.g.):
> 1355: "dat mögen wy ... upbören ... ohne meldinge der ... vryheit"
As far as I'm able to interprete these few words I find them very close to
'aufbürden','auf sich nehmen'.

Greutens/Regards

Johannes "Jonny" Meibohm

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Lexicon

Jonny,

I don't even understand what you are are still going on about "right" and 
"wrong" for, or indeed what your argument is supposed to be.  From where I'm 
sitting you sound like talking on both sides of your mouth.  On the one hand 
you want the language to be free of planning, engineering, etc., and on the 
other hand you make unanymous declarations about words (including words used 
for a century or so) being right or wrong, which is also a form of control, 
arbitration, thus engineering.  On what basis and authority do you make such 
pronouncements?  Because some people you happen to know do or do not use a 
given variant?  Give over already, Jonny!  Wake up and smell the muckefuck! 
People use certain words or variants of words in dialectical distribution 
(not necessarily geographically), have done so for ages, if you and your 
local sources like it or not.  This is what I demonstrated with the 
examples.

Kumpelmenten,
Reinhard/Ron

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