LL-L 'Idiomatica' 2006.08.29 (07) [E]

Tue Aug 29 22:41:32 UTC 2006

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L O W L A N D S - L * 29 August 2006 * Volume 07
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From: 'Stellingwerfs Eigen' [info at stellingwerfs-eigen.nl]
Subject: LL-L 'Idiomatica'

Ron wrote:
> I don't recommend that learners use it (geil) unless they are absolutely
sure it's safe
That's quite how tricky it can be... geil plus safe, makes: safe sex!
Mit een vrundelike groet uut Stellingwarf,
Piet Bult

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From: 'Hugo Zweep' [Zweep at bigpond.com]
Subject: LL-L 'Idiomatica' 2006.08.29 (02) [E]

My Winschoter mother used to say "wel gefelisiteerd met je verjaordag".
She'd then go on to say to my Australian wife "Congratulations on your
husband's birthday", drawing out the "u" sound in congratulations. And then
she'd repeat it to all my children. They especially loved it and now we have
this familial ring around whenever one of of us has a birthday, always
imitating my mother's accent. Quite good fun to know siblings ring around
repeating what has now become somewhat of a tradition in an extended family.

Is this a lowland characteristic, congratulating family members on the
relative's birthday?

Hugo Zweep

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From: 'Karl-Heinz Lorenz' [Karl-Heinz.Lorenz at gmx.net]
Subject: LL-L 'Idiomatica' 2006.08.29 (05) [D/E]

> From: 'Stellingwerfs Eigen' [info at stellingwerfs-eigen.nl]
> Subject: LL-L 'Idiomatica'
>
> Karl-Heinz wrote:
> > Hartelijk gelukwens aan je verjaardag!
> This should be: Hartelijk geluk gewenst met je verjaardag!
>
> > Het beste aan je verjaardag!
> We never use this one, as far as I know.
> "Het beste..." is mostly used with a *thing* like f.i. a new bicycle or a
> new car.
> "Het beste met je nieuwe fiets/auto" or something for "I wish You all the
> best with..." or in general: "Het beste er mee."
>
> > Do you also use "geboortedag" for "birthday"?
> Strictly in words 1:1 yes, but in relation with a birthdayparty we use
> _verjaardag_.
>
> > What about: (Een) zalig verjaardag!
> For me, _zalig_ is typical Roman Katholic and is used in the South of the
> Netherlands at Christmas:
> "Een zalig kerstfeest" or some days later "Een zalig nieuwjaar" (for:
> Happy
> new year).
> I never heard _zalig_ in relation with a birthday.
>
> > "(Een) gelukkige verjaardag!" for Happy birthday!
> I never heard _gelukkig_ in relation with a birthdaywish.
> This should be: "Hartelijk geluk gewenst met je verjaardag!"
> or "Gefeliciteerd met je verjaardag"

Thank you, I think I have to be careful with verbatim translations.

> > Een geiles verjaardag festje!
> Oei..! Nobody ever wishd me something like that!
> _geil_ is _voluptuous_ so I can only dream of such a birthday-party;-)

I'm 42 and I also use it only in this sense of "horny", good to know that the
Duch meaning didn't change.

> > Does this work? Did Dutch "geil" undergo the same change of meaning as
> German "geil"?
> For me, the German _geil_ is more like _thick_ and _fat_ or _greasy_.

Yes I think this was the original meaning.

> In Dutch we also use _geil_ for good clayground at the north coast near
> the
> Waddenzee.
> Geile grond geft geile eerappels: vette klei geeft dikke aardappelen.

This must be a lowlands meaning.

> Seawas, Karl!
>
> On the contrary; our word 'geil' means 'horny'! There was a song in
> Germany in
> the late eighties: "Everybody's geil", but to Dutch ears that song sounded
> quite
> naughty. I believe in German it just means 'great', doesn't it? In Middle
> Dutch
> the word already meant 'luscious', 'somptuous', 'cheerful'. In
> Althochdeutsch it
> was 'geil'; meaning 'zestful', 'overcourageous', 'cheerful'. In Afrikaans
> it
> means 'fertile' (as in fertile soil).
>
> As you can see; learning a language can be tricky.
>
> Best regards, Marcel.

Hoi Marcel!

This is a good example how a word in two languages can become a false friend in
only a few years.

An example the other way round is for me the word "krass". Originally a false
friend, but the youngsters in German speaking countries use it in a way pretty
close to the Dutch sense.
> ----------
>
> From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
> Subject: Idiomatica
>
> Piet and Marcel,
>
> _German _geil_ originally also meant '(very) fertile', 'ready for the
> planting',
> or "fat" (of soil). It can still mean this, but people now tend to avoid
> it in
> this context because of the secondary meaning 'horny', a meaning it had
> already
> acquired in Old German times. In the sense of 'great', 'super', 'cool',
> etc., it
> began in I'm-young-and-thus-need-to-rebel jargon ("In your face, old
> codgers!"),
> no doubt having initially been meant to shock. Even after having heard it
> for
> two or three decades, many German speakers, certainly older ones, are
> still
> uncomfortable with it, probably as uncomfortable as Dutch speakers would
> be. I
> don't recommend that learners use it unless they are absolutely sure it's
> safe,
> because it is still considered pretty unseemly by many people, perhaps a
> bit like
> English expressions such as "This sucks" or "He gets off doing that."
> (Even
> people with a moderately keen etymological sense can at least imagine the
> origins
> of such phrases.)

I sometimes like to provoke the kids with phrases like: "Brav sein ischt
wichtig!", because nobody wants to be "brav" (keep out of mischief) in these days.

Karl-Heinz

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