LL-L 'Etymology' 2006.12.12 (01) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

L O W L A N D S - L * 12 December 2006 * Volume 01
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From: jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L 'Etymology'

Dear Lowlanners,

these days I came across the English word _to take_ and wondered I didn't
find any obviously related word in German or LS.

Meanwhile I had a look into the Online Etymological Dictionary (we already
had its URL, but here again:
http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=autobahn&searchmode=none ) and
found corresponding Middle Low Saxon 'tacken' in the meaning of 'to touch'.

I remembered an LS-expression of my youth: _ticken_, even 'Ticken spielen',
which exactly means 'to touch (someone)'. We used this word when we played
different outdoor-games; if you 'ticked' someone you symbolically had
captured him.

Could the French word 'touché', meaning a whole family of similar things, be
a loan from any Germanic language (English, Dutch, German)? I'd supposed it
to have proceeded the opposite way...

Greutens/Regards

Johannes "Jonny" Meibohm

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Jonny,

Old English has *tacan* and also niman for 'to take', but the latter fell
into disuse in Middle English. Old Norse has taka (> taga, tage).
Apparently, these two originally meant 'to grip', 'to grasp', 'to seize',
but ultimately they go back to Indo-European *dēg- 'to touch'.

This may suggest an etymological link with "to touch," and to me it does,
considering related forms: Old Northern French toquer, Portuguese tocar,
Spanish tocar and Italian toccare, all meaning 'to hit', 'to strike', as
well as Romanian *tocà* 'to knock'. However, some have connected these with
verbs for 'to pull', 'to jerk', related to Low Saxon tucken and German
zucken, but I don't understand why.

According to The Oxford English Dictionary, they are not related to 'to
tick'.

Tacken in Middle Saxon is interesting. Since I can't find a cognate in Old
Saxon, I suspect that it was a short-lived loan from Scandinavian.  Loaning
did go both ways, though Middle Saxon loans loaned far, far more words to
Scandinavian than it borrowed from it.

Cheers!
Reinhard/Ron
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