LL-L 'Names' 2006.12.30 (03) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

L O W L A N D S - L - 30 December 2006 - Volume 03
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From: Leslie Decker <leslie at familydecker.org>
Subject: LL-L 'Names' 2006.12.29 (02) [E/German]

*Ron wrote:
Will the next step be to say in English "Roma," "Warszawa," "Praha,"
"Catalunya," "München" and "Wien" instead of traditional "Rome," "Warsaw,"
"Prague," "Catalonia," "Munich" and "Vienna"? Why only **one version of each
name? Why only "Fryslân" instead of "Fryslân" in Frisian and "Friesland" in
Dutch, English, German, etc.? Am I missing something?

*I totally agree with you here.  This trend of changing names in English to
sound more like the names in the native language annoys me to death! It's
especially a problem when the English name is identical in spelling to the
native name.  The recent trend around here is to pronounce all
Spanish-origin names as if we were speaking Spanish.  Huh?  I pronounce
Amsterdam and Berlin one way in English and another in Dutch and German,
respectively, and I do the same with Spanish place names, provided those
places are well known enough to have an Anglicized version of their names.
There are simply multiple versions of the names, and none of them are wrong.

What especially annoys me is people telling me how to pronounce the names of
the places where I grew up. I think I may have ranted about this here
before--forgive me if so.  The population of Austin has quadrupled since I
was a kid, so there are a lot of (at the risk of sounding xenophobic :-) )
'non-natives.'  I always hear someone talk about Guadalupe Street
['ɡwɑdəlup], saying it should be [ɣuada'lupe] or at the very least
[ɡwɑdə'lupei]. Manchaca (ok, I know that this is a stretch, but it's
pronounced ['mænʃæk] :-) ) I hear a lot lately as [man'tʃaka], which is
funny, because it's a misspelling anyway:  it should be Menchaca, and
there's a middle school called this which is pronounced 'correctly.'

This 'correction' doesn't just extend to Spanish names.  I live near a
street called Burnet Rd ['bɜɻnɪt], which is slowly getting changed in the
media to [bɜɻ'nɛt].  One of the major cross streets is Koenig Lane ['keinɪg]
or ['kInɪ], which has been overcorrected to ['koʊnɪg], because, after all,
it's got an 'o' in it!  On the newer city buses the announcements have some
annoying woman's voice saying 'Now approaching BurNETT at KOH-nig!'
Cringeworthy for me.  When people get uppity about Spanish name
pronunciation I like to point out that Koenig is German and in Texas German
the way I'm pronouncing it is closer to correct! :-)

About a year ago, when I told someone my grandmother's house was near Burnet
and Koenig, they told me it was obvious I was a native, and congratulated me
for a pronunciation they didn't hear very often any more.

Rant over now :-)

Leslie

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Names

Hi, Leslie!  It's nice to hear from you again (especially because you agree
with me).  Oh, and nice IPA action, too!  Congratulations!

Why, are you trying to tell us that the name of your home state is
*not*pronounced ['t
ɛhas]?

My experience in California is that most people here are pretty relaxed
about the pronunciation of Spanish-derived place names. Even most native
Spanish speakers, especially those native to the US part of California,
pronounce such names accurately when speaking Spanish but pronounce them in
the common English way when speaking English.

Before I came down to Santa Cruz I pronounced the name [sæntə'kru:s], i.e.,
a semi-Anglicized version of Spanish [santa'krus] (Iberian Castilian
[santa'kruθ]), while most non-Californians say it a bit more Anglicicized as
[sænə'kru:z].  However, most people in and around Santa Cruz pronounce it
['sænəkruz], with the main stress on the first syllable.  Admittedly
somewhat hesitatingly, I am now getting my head and tongue around this
common pronunciation. I do admit that my first inclination is always to want
to pronounce Spanish place names in Spanish.

"Los Angeles" is another good example.  People would think you're joking if
you said [lɔs'anxeles] or [lɔs'aŋxeles] while speaking English. The ordinary
pronunciation is [lɔs'ʔæ:nʤələs], [lɔs'ɛɪnʤələs] being the commonly heard
British pronunciation. Many locals will tell you that one-time-hip "L.A." is
outsiders' talk, and "Frisco" gets the same or a worse reception in San
Francisco.

English speakers often try to pronounce German place names in German when
speaking to me in English (e.g., "I particularly enjoyed *München*.").  I
don't really find it that cool, I must admit.  But whatever floats their
boats.

My rant is now over also.

Reinhard/Ron
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