LL-L 'Names' 2006.12.31 (04) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

L O W L A N D S - L - 31 December 2006 - Volume 04
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From: jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L 'Names' 2006.12.28 (01) [E]

Beste Ron,

you wrote:

English speakers often try to pronounce German place names in German when
speaking to me in English (e.g., "I particularly enjoyed *M**ü**nchen*.").
I don't really find it that cool, I must admit

What about the German pronunciation of 'Lond'n' vs the correct 'Lon-don'? A
whole lot of people in G had to learn to speak it the correct, English way
during their language education.

Should they always shift from one to the other, depending on the context
they use it in? If you as a native German keep on to swallow the last 'o'
you'll never become able to do it the right way!

Have a look at an amused native English speaker's face hearing a German say
'Wor-cester' or 'Lei-cester'- though the correct pronunciation somehow is
against the rules.

Why shouldn't we, or with even more legitimacy the Dutch, keep on saying
'Nieuw Amsterdam' instead of 'New York'?? The simple answer: because 99% of
the people worldwide wouldn't understand.

And- what about the US? How many place names are of really Native-American
origin, though there might be such a name?

Couldn't it be a kind of insult to talk with a third-generation Russian
inhabitant of Kaliningrad as 'Koenigsberg'?

It always had been a tricky and delicate thing with names, I fear!

Greutens/Regards
Johannes "Jonny" Meibohm

BTW: Something cut the tail of my mail last night! So- best wishes for the
New Year to everyone once more!

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From: Karl-Heinz.Lorenz at GMX.NET
Subject: LL-L 'Names' 2006.12.28 (01) [E]

> English speakers often try to pronounce German place names in German when
> speaking to me in English (e.g., "I particularly enjoyed *München*.").  I
> don't really find it that cool, I must admit.  But whatever floats their
> boats.
>
> My rant is now over also.
>
> Reinhard/Ron
Ron, you forgot to tell the people, that they'd rather should use the
Bavarian name for Munich as it is "Minga" or "Menga", for little trained
non-native German-speakers much easier to handle as the standard German
"München" which often ends up in something like "Munghken".

And I'm back to "Braunschweig". I suppose that non-German speakers also aim
to use that. Why not? --> ['braunshvaik] But keep in mind, that LS and
international used "Brunswi(e)k" is correct, meaning "Brun's (forename)
fortress" (in High-German: Brun's Festung), whereas "Braunschweig" means
"brown alp/mountain pasture" ((German: braune Alm/Bergweide), see:

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alm_%28Bergweide%29

So a correct germaniced version would have been for example: Brunsfeste or
Brunsw(e)ig, but "Braunschweig" is a synonym for "Braunalm", which is pretty
alike "Braunau".

Again tongue-in-cheek, but I'm telling the truth and nothing but the truth,
so anyway

A broche oif aich/enk ("Bless you" in Jidisch/Yiddish)

Karl-Heinz

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Names

Jonny (above):

> And- what about the US? How many place names are of really Native-American
origin, though there might be such a name?

Yes, there are thousands of US, Canadian and other American place names that
are of aboriginal origin. But I don't quite understand what you're asking.
You mean that we could have stuck with aboriginal names rather than adopt
the European ones?  Sure we could, and in some cases aboriginal names are
restored, as in the return of lands to aboriginals in Canada and Australia,
also in the international Tibetan or Dzongkha renaming of Himalayan peaks
that used to be named after foreign adventurers (e.g., Mount Everest > Mount
Chomolungma).

Virtually all Danish and English place names in Greenland have now been
named back to their Inuqtitut (Kalallisut) versions; e.g., Egedesminde >
Aasiaat, Søndre Strømfjord > Kangerlussuaq, Frederikshåb > Paamiut, Thule
Airbase > Pituffik, Thule > Qaanaaq, Christianshåb > Qasigiannguit, Godthåb
> Nuuk, Holsteinsborg > Sisimiut, Scoresbysund/Scoresby Sound >
Ittoqqortoormiit.

Many American place names have local aboriginal equivalents that are used in
those languages, such as Mohawk *Kaniatarowanenneh* for St. Lawrence River,
*Skahnehtati* for Albany, and *Kanon:no* for New York (State), Haida Haida
Gwaii for Queen Charlotte Islands, and Hik'yaah for Windy Bay, Kwak'kwala
(Kwakiutl) Tsadzis'nuk'w*a*me' for New Vancouver, Mi'kmaq (Micmac)
Unama'kifor Cape Breton Island, Epekwitk
for Prince Edward Island, and Mekwe'jite'wa'kik for Red Indian Lake,
Lenape Mëneyung
for Schuylkill River, and Mexkilëk for Delaware River, Cheyenne
E'êxovahtovafor Billings, and
Ma'xepono'e for Oklahoma City, Diné (Navajo) Bee'eldííldahsinil for
Albuquerque, Tsélché'ékooh for Grand Canyon, Sooléí for Salt Lake City, and
Kinlaní for Flagstaff, Mixtec Ñako'ozho for Mexico City, and Ñuùndéya for
Santa María Chalcatongo de Hidalgo, Aymara Chukiyawu for La Paz, and Guarani
Itapúa for Encarnación.

Some names have been officially restored in Canada, such as Frobisher Bay >
Iqaluit, Port Brabant > Tuktoyaktuk, Port Harrison > Inoucdjouac, Port
Burwell > Killiniq, George River > Port-Nouveau-Québec > Kangiqsualujjuaq,
Wakeham Bay > Maricourt > Kangiqsujuaq, Eskimo Point > Arviat, Resolute >
Qausuittuq, Chesterfield Inlet > Igluligaarjuk, Fort Norman > Tulít'a,
Nahanni Butte > Tthenaagoo, Saint-Régis > Akwesasne (= Mohawk *Ahkwesáhsne*).
In Paraguay, both Spanish and Guarani place names are at least in theory
official, since both languages are official in the country.

Karl-Heinz (above):

> Again tongue-in-cheek, but I'm telling the truth and nothing but the
truth, so anyway.

Sure you do!  What about Old Bavarian Munihhen instead of Munich?  I like
the Italian version: Monaco di Bavaria.

> A broche oif aich/enk ("Bless you" in Jidisch/Yiddish)

Un a brokhe oykhet oyf dayn pupik!
[And a blessing onto your belly button as well!]

Kumpelmenten,
Reinhard/Ron
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