LL-L "Etymology" 2006.02.17 (03) [E/LS/German]

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17 February 2006 * Volume 03
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From: Arend Victorie <victorie.a at HOME.NL>
Subject: Language varieties

Moi Riekus en Ron,

As ik 't goed begriepe dan vertaal ie 't woord "Hose" in Bux, boks,
boksem. (Nederlaands Broek.) Koks woordenboek van Drentse dialecten gef 't
volgende. "Hoos"<hozen> zuudoost zaand. "hij lop ok altied mit de hozen op
de hakken" (Hij loopt altijd met afgezakte sokken)Het giet hier dus niet
um een broek mar het giet hier umme sokken.
Boks, ok bokse,bukse, bokem, boksen = broek.

Goodgaon,
Arend Victorie.

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From: jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2006.02.17 (02) [E]

Hi, Ron,

you wrote about ''dwars-''- I *have* to answer ;-)!

> dwarskop <Dwarskopp> [pl. _-köp_] ("thwart-head")
>       'eccentric person', 'person with odd ideas' [surely no one
>      *we* know]
Surely- we don't!

> dwarsdryver <Dwarsdriever> [pl. _-s] ("thwart-driver")
>      (1) 'bad navigator'; (2) 'contrary person', 'opinionated
>       person with non-mainstream ideas and attitudes'
>      [again, no one *we* would know here]
By no means!!!!

> As for 'to take a shortcut', I'd probably say _dwars roever gaan_ in Low
> Saxon.  (What would the rest of you say?)
So would I!

> dwarsbüngel <Dwarsbüngel> [pl. _-s_] (< _Dwarsbü(t)tel_
>      "twart-bad"?) same as _dwarsdryver_ (2)
Do you know what this _büngel_ exactly is meaning? I came across this word 
in my Eastern-Frisian times, and it was used there as a synonym for many 
things just moving in a certain staggering way.

> dwarsmoel(en) <Dwarsmöhl(n)> ("thwart-mill(s)")
>      'helicopter' (jocular neologism, mostly in the far north)
The Old-Saxon word for 'mill' had been 'kwern', and there still are 
location-names like 'Quarnbeek' ('mill-creek') which could cognate with 
this. Do you guess any relation from OldSaxon 'kwern' to LS 'quer'?

BTW: I'd been looking for times after the real origin of the word 
_Fickmühle_ (wordly: 'fuck-mill') as you find in some German location names. 
It must have been a mill with any special technology, perhaps a 'saw-mill'??

Greutens/Regards

Johannes "Jonny" Meibohm

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Thanks, Arend and Jonny!

Arend, _hose_ comes from an old word meaning something like ... well, 
English "hose" in both sense of the word: (1) (usually tight-fitting*) 
legging (covering foot and leg, mostly worn by males in medieval times) 
[Dutch _kous_ or _sok_, German _(lange) Gamasche_, _langer Strumpf_), and 
(2) flexible tube (as in "garden hose") [Dutch _(water)slang_, German 
_Schlauch_].  So the general idea here is "flexible tube".

Modern English has "pantyhose" for Dutch _panty_ and German _Strumpfhose_ 
("stocking-pants").

* There are exceptions, such as "shipman's hose" for very wide (usually 
three-quarter-length) pants once worn by old-time sailors, especially in the 
English-speaking world.

In German, _Hose_ came to mean 'trousers'.

I am not sure about the origin of _büks_ for 'pants'.

Moin, Jonny!  Some Low Saxon dialects still have _kwern_ <Que(e)rn> for 
'mill', but in the specific sense of 'hand-operated mill', 'grinder'.  I 
have heard both _koffy-moel_ and _koffy-kwern_ for 'coffee grinder' (German 
_Kaffeemühle_).  Old English has _cweorn_ and _cwiern_ for 'grinder' (> 
"quern"), Old Frisian and Old Saxon _quern_, Old German _quirn_, _churn_ and 
_chuirna_, Old Norse _kvern_, Gothic _-qairnus_.  English "churn" (< _cirn_) 
is related to this group.

Otherwise it's _moel_ <Möhl>; cf. Old Saxon _muli_, Middle Saxon _möle_, 
_mœle_, _molle_, Middle Dutch _môle(n)_, _muele_, Old German _mulî_, etc., 
all going back to Latin _mola_ and _molin-_ (related to English "meal").

German _Fickmühle_ (nowadays meaning 'quandary') is a southern word, and the 
idea of the first part is an old one: 'to move back and forth', later also 
'to be fidgety' (!!!); cf. Low Saxon _vikkerig_ <fickerig> 'fidgety'. 
Apparently, in the case of the mill, it referred to a special type of 
watermill in which two rods moved back and forth in opposite directions.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron 

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