LL-L "Etymology" 2006.02.26 (04) [E]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
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   L O W L A N D S - L * 26 February 2006 * Volume 04
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From: Heather Rendall <HeatherRendall at compuserve.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2006.02.26 (01) [E]

Would people mind if we went back to 'poll' and its origins.

Did I understand correctly that its meaning of 'head' came after its
meaning 'to cut' and the noun 'pollard' ?

Is it common across the Lowland languages?

Heather

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From: Roger Thijs, Euro-Support, Inc. <roger.thijs at euro-support.be>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2006.02.26 (01) [E]

> From: Roger Hondshoven <roger.hondshoven at pandora.be>
> Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2006.02.25 (02) [E]
>
> As a matter of fact the word /nuës/ is als known in my dialect. It's a
> synonym of "te griest".

I gave "terwjaas" as expression in Limburgish of Vliermaal.
It may wel be related to "dwars" since there are quite a lot of occurencies
of  "vowel+r" in Dutch transformed into "i+vowel" in Lonerland Limburgish.
Kers -> kjoe-es
vers -> vjoe-es
kerel -> kjal
kaars -> kjaas
vaars -> vjaas
vaardig (old D. for klaar zijn, cf fertig in German) -> vjarig
de sop és vjarig: de soep is klaar

Other than to "dwars" it may eventually be related to "herwaarts"
"derwaarts" (oldfashioned Dutch)
cf. the oldest name for the Bourgondian Lowlands (not united at the time):
"de landen van herrewaarts over"
"les pays de par deça" in French
later in French: "les pays d'embas"
finally "les pays-bas".

I remember we had a second word: "tries".
It means virtually the same thing as "terwjaas".
For me "tries" feels more "erratic", "tentative", while "terwjaas" is more
intentionally straightforward.

Regards,
Roger

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Hi, Heather!

You asked:

> Would people mind if we went back to 'poll' and its origins.

Well, we could take a poll.  Ouch!  Sorry.

> Did I understand correctly that its meaning of 'head' came after its
> meaning 'to cut' and the noun 'pollard' ?

I'm not sure we said that.  Personally I doubt that it came after the verb. 
For one thing, cognates of the noun are more widespread than those of the 
verb.  For another thing, it appears that the original meaning is "crown of 
the head" with reference to hair (cowlicks, etc.?), "standing-up hair" gave 
rise to using it it with reference to pollarded trees (looking like 
Struwwelpeter) and in some Low Saxon dialects it finally came to denote 
'treetop' in general.  I believe the verb "to poll" (_pollen_ ~ _pullen_ "to 
cut hair" > "to prune trees to make pollards of them") was derived from the 
noun, much like for instance "to dead-head" meaning 'to remove dead flower 
heads (in order to promote a plant's growth and new flower production)', and 
"to coiffure" from the noun "coiffure" (which clearly started as a noun of 
the French _-ure_ and Latin _-ura_ type).

Roger:

> Kers -> kjoe-es
> vers -> vjoe-es
> kerel -> kjal
> kaars -> kjaas
> vaars -> vjaas

These look like cases of metathesis to me: Vr > rV
More precisely: Vr -> Vj > jV

(V = vowel)

The rule /r/ -> [j] is very common among Eastern and Siberian Turkic 
languages.  So it's not farfetched.

So, e.g., kaars -> kaajs > kjaas

> vaardig (old D. for klaar zijn, cf fertig in German) -> vjarig

I believe that in this case we are dealing with /rr/:
vardig > varrig > vajrig > vjarig

Compare Lower Elbe Low Saxon:
vardig ["fa:dIC] > varrig (<fardig>, <farrig>) ["fa:rIC] 'ready', 'done'
This is a case of d-assimilation, which applies very widely in North Saxon, 
more commonly after /n/ and /l/ (e.g., _kind_ [kInt] 'child' -> _kinder_ 
["kIn3`] <Kinner> 'children', _bild_ [bIlt] 'picture' -> _bilder_ ["bIl3`] 
<Biller> 'pictures').

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron 

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