LL-L 'Phonology' 2006.07.09 (04) [E]

Sun Jul 9 18:11:11 UTC 2006

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L O W L A N D S - L * 09 July 2006 * Volume 04
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From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
Subject: LL-L 'Phonology' 2006.07.08 (01) [D/E]

Hi Paul

I don't know about British English, but the uvular R seems to be the
common pronunciation in Krio, the Creole English of Freetown, Sierra Leone.
Which I find quite surprising, since Krio is spoken by Africans and there
is no influence from French, German here, nor from West African languages
because they lack uvular R.

Groetz
Ingmar

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From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L 'History' 2006.07.08 (06) [D/E]

Further to the ulvular /r/ question, I recall that it occurs in Cape Afrikaans,
at least in some areas.  I was told that it was due to French influence, though I
don't know if that's true.  All the Afrikaans I was exposed to was Transvaal and
Vrystaat, with a verrry strongly trilled /r/.

Paul Finlow-Bates

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From: David Barrow <davidab at telefonica.net.pe>
Subject: LL-L 'History' 2006.07.08 (11) [E]

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Phonology  
>
> We've been talking about /au/ -> [aI] in Southern English, and I wrote:
>
>> As for /au/ being pronounced [aI], Welsh connection was just a wild stab on my
>> part, given that Welsh written _au_ (assumedly once pronounced *[aU], perhaps
>> still in Middle Welsh) is pronounced [ai] in the north and [a1] in the south.
>> Welsh has obviously undergone an extensive high unrounding process, often
>> preceded by a fronting process, much like fareastern Germanic varieties have in
>> Slavonic environments, e.g., Mennonite Low Saxon (Plautdietsch) and Yiddish, not
>> to mention many other Low Saxon and German dialects (e.g., Old German /ou/ > *oÃ¼
>>     
>>> E.Yidd. [Oi] (but Baltic Yidd. [OU]) as in ×”×•×™×– _hoyz_ 'house', and Old German
>>>       
>> /u(u)/ > *Ã¼(Ã¼) > [i(:)] (Baltic Yidd. [u(:)]) ×’×•×˜ _gut_ [gi(:)t] 'good'. Apart
>> from foreign influence or lack thereof, I think this has something to do not only
>> with lip formation but also with jaw fronting, and I can see how this can occur
>> sporadically or can be caused or favored by contacts with languages in which this
>> took place.     
>
> Just now I took a break and watched a British show about architectural antiques
> salvage in which one guy pronounced /au/ (as in "cow") as [EY] and /ou/ (as in
> "low") as [3Y]; e.g., _out_ [EYt], _now_ [nEY], _stone_ [st3Yn], _low_ [l3Y]. 
> [Y] is like short _Ã¼_ as in German _GlÃ¼ck_ and Turkish _Ã¼zÃ¼m_, just used as a
> semi-vowel here.  Even in Standard German some people use it that way; while some
> pronounce _euch_ as [?OIC] others pronounce it as [?OYC], and _HÃ¤user_ can be
> ["hOIz@`] or ["hOYz@`], the second variant of each being rounded throughout.
>
> This seems to be the missing link.
>
> By the way, the show was set in Brighton, but no one else had that pronunciation
> in the report.  By the sound of it, it definitely was a very southern dialect (as
> in "south coast dialect"), perhaps from an area near Brighton.  Or might the
> speaker have been the only born and raised Brighton lad in the bunch?
>
> Regards,
> Reinhard/Ron
>  
Ron,

Did your Brighton bloke sound anything like this bloke

http://www.collectbritain.co.uk/personalisation/object.cfm?uid=021MMC900S16310U00026C01

Wonder if he's any relation to Steve Ovett, the runner, who was also born in
Brighton.

or this bloke

http://www.bbc.co.uk/southerncounties/video_nation/smokehouse.shtml

I lived in Brighton for about 10 years before I moved here to Peru end of 97.
Though then I hadn't developed the interest in languages and accents I have now.

David Barrow

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Phonology 

Hi, Dave!

Thanks loads.  No, that bloke didn't sound anything like them.  My guess is that
he was from much farther west or northwest.

Those recorded accents are much more like what I remember in the area from
decades ago (including [aI] in words like "play").

That's a lovely web resource, isn't it?

> I lived in Brighton for about 10 years before I moved here to 
> Peru end of 97. Though then I hadn't developed the interest in 
> languages and accents I have now.

Isn't it interesting how living abroad or at least far away from their native
place makes people more interested in and appreciative of languages?  I guess
that goes for many of our members.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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