LL-L 'Delectables' 2006.07.18 (01) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 18 July 2006 * Volume 01
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From: Tom Mc Rae <t.mcrae at uq.net.au>
Subject: LL-L 'Delectables' 2006.07.16 (05) [E]

On 17/07/2006, at 4:17 PM,  'Global Moose Translations' <globalmoose at t-online.de>
 wrote:

> Subject:  LL-L 'Delectables' 2006.07.16 (03) [E/LS]
>
>
> But a "cheese culture" was absent long before that. Just think of those
>
> elaborate buildings in Holland containing cheese scales, such as in Gouda,
>
> for example - they are many centuries old! 
I'll never forget visiting the cheese market in the square at Alkmaar in the late
1940's.
Sleds of lovely round cheeses carried around pairs of men traditionally dressed
in white pyjama like garb and large straw hats.
I hope this wonderful market remains extant.

Regards

Tom Mc Rae
Brisbane Australia

Oh Wad Some Power the Giftie Gie Us
Tae See Oorsel's as Ithers See Us
Robert Burns

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From: 'Rikus Kiers' <kiersbv at tiscali.nl>
Subject: LL-L 'Delectables' 2006.07.17 (09) [E/LS]

Concerns milkproduction

Dear Thomas,

I remember the days around.1960 in Drenthe The Netherlands. My father was a
farmer. Milk production was somewhere in between 25 and 36 liters pro cow a
day. 31/2 liters sounds impossible to me. Do not you make a mistake?

Rikus Kiers

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From: 'Mark Dreyer' <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L 'Delectables' 2006.07.17 (09) [E/LS]

Dear Ron, Theo & All:

Subject: Delectables

> I think that the older word for 'cheese' must have
> been related to the present-day 'ost' in scandinavian.

Yes, I suspect that also. In Old Norse it is _ostr_, thus the root being
/ost-/.
If it had survived in West Germanic I would have expected it to be *_just_,
*_joest_, *_youst_ and the like. It is supposed to have been derived from
the
Indo-European root *_i̯eu-_ denoting 'to stir', 'to mix', the extension
with _-s_
deriving a word for 'broth' (e.g., Sanskrit य�,�f _yūḥ_, Latin
_iūs_, Sorbian
_jucha_, Czech _jícha_ 'broth'; cf. German _Jauche_ 'liquid muck'). So
*_just_
means something like *"that which results from broth."

May I throw the English word 'yeast' (frothy, or ferment - Chambers 20th
Century Dictionary) into the mix? I know it is cognate with our 'gis' &
related Lowland words, for which Icelandic reservers the concept 'to sour'.

Yrs,
Mark

PS the one time I tried to make cheese the 'moeder' exploded... sigh. Yes, I
have cleaned a kitchen- from floor to ceiling. 

----------

From: Wesley Parish <wes.parish at paradise.net.nz>
Subject: LL-L 'Delectables' 2006.07.16 (05) [E]

On Mon, 17 Jul 2006 18:17, Lowlands-L wrote:

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Delectables

> Could there be a "French" link? By that I mean not only French-speaking
> areas but also those in which related languages are spoken, such as Picard
> and Walloon. There's been a lot of cheese making going on there. Perhaps
> it was passed on from there to Holland via what is now Belgium, and the
> Dutch were clever and industrious (or desperate) enough to say, "Good deal!
> We have plenty of cows already." What about cheese making in England and
> Scotland? Did that come in with the Norman occupation? What I'm talking

I get the (vague) feeling that cheese-making in England was a result of
intensive Fleming trading and settlement - around the time of Chaucer. (Sort
of the Belgian equivalent to the Hanseatic League.) And Fleming is an
English surname. From what I know of the Old English culture, cheese doesn't
seem to have been a major part of it - there's a saucy Old English poem about
churning butter, but cheese doesn't seem to have been on the menu.

Nor for that matter would it have come with the Norman Conquest. I don't
think hard cheeses were a feature of the Gallic kitchen. We know about the
semi-soft French cheeses, but a good many of the hard cheeses I can think of
offhand, happen to be Belgian or Dutch. And the remainder are English.

> about is hard cheese. Soft cheeses, to be eaten fairly fresh, were made in
> the Western Slavonic areas, including what is now Eastern Germany. Maybe
> hard cheese making didn't reach farther east than the Netherlands, and most
> of Northern Germany was a type of no man's land between soft cheeses and
> hard cheeses. And he keeps guessing wildly.
>
> Or ... the whole thing could be a Dutch racket, a conspiracy to leave North
> Germans caseically disadvantaged. Oh, yes, yes! That must be it.
:-)
>
> Regards,
> Reinhard/Ron

Wesley Parish

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From: 'Heinrich Becker' <heinrich.becker at gmx.net>
Subject: LL-L 'Delectables' 2006.07.17 (02) [E]]

From: Helge Tietz <helgetietz at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L 'Delectables' 2006.07.16 (03) [E/LS]

The ordinary Geest-Buur would actually not consume a lot of
meat, instead, according to a description of the Rendsborg-District from
1923,
"Bookweetengruet", (Buckwheat-Pudding) and dark bread were present in
almost all
meals, vegetables and fruits such as pears were cooked or eaten with
milk and
supplied as a main- or side dishes, meat was another side-dish, often in
the
evening but usually only in the form of "Speck" (beacon) because it was
precious.

***

Dear friends of that topic and newer Low German literature,

to everybody who is interested in the way of life in 18th and 19th
century, I recommend the novel in Slesvig Low German: Heinrich Ohm: "De
Mohls", 380 p. 2nd Edition 2006 PLAGGENHAUER ISBN 3-937949-04-6 ca.ˆ
25.00

Sincerely

Heinrich Becker

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Delectables

Wesley,

I remember being told that the surname Fleming is predominantly Scottish, that
many Flemings (supposedly from Flanders) first settled in Wales and of these many
then moved north where they came to be called Fleming, Welsh and Walsh.

Mark:

> May I throw the English word 'yeast' (frothy, or ferment - Chambers 20th
> Century Dictionary)

This appears to have a different source.  In Old English, Late West Saxon has
_gist_ and Anglian has _gest_, Middle Saxon _gist_ 'muck', 'dregs' (> Modern
_geest_ ~ _jeest_), Middle Dutch _ghist_ > Modern Dutch _gist_ 'yeast', Old Norse
_jastr_ and _gerð_ 'yeast', cf. German _Gischt_ 'foam', 'froth' related to Old
German _jeasan_ ~ _gesan_ > Middle German _jesen_ ~ _gesen_ ~ _gärn_ > Modern
German _gären_ 'to ferment' (intransitive) vs. Old German _jerian_ ~ _gerian_ 'to
ferment" (transitive).  Crucial here are the Sanskrit cognates यास्यति _yāsyati_ ~
यासति _yāsati_ 'boil', 'seethe' and प्रायस्तस् _prāyastas_ 'boiling over' in that
they have a _s(y)_ (which corresponds to Germanic _z_ ~ _s_ ~ _r_) as opposed to
_ḥ_ (which corresponds to Germanic _s_).  But, of course, it is not impossible
that there is a link between these way, way back.

Heinrich:

> to everybody who is interested in the way of life in 18th and 19th
> century, I recommend the novel in Slesvig Low German: Heinrich Ohm: "De
> Mohls", 380 p. 2nd Edition 2006 PLAGGENHAUER ISBN 3-937949-04-6 ca.ˆ

There's a website about it, with an intro, also with an excerpt both in print and
audio:
http://www.maroki.de/lowsax/de_mohls.html

By the way, buckwheat is a traditional staple among people of the heath lands
(_Geest_ [ge:st] (related?)) where the soil is sandy and thus not terribly
fertile (as opposed to the lower-lying _Marsch_ [ma:S] 'marsh(es)', which,
however, have a problem with clay).  A traditional favorite of the Lunenburg
Heath is buckwheat torte, which isn't half bad.

Recipe:
http://www.chefkoch.de/rezepte/72301027240032/Buchweizentorte.html (German)

Enjoy!

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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