LL-L "Phonology" 2006.03.11 (07) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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   L O W L A N D S - L * 11 March 2006 * Volume 07
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From: David Barrow <davidab at telefonica.net.pe>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2006.03.11 (045) [E]

> From: David Barrow <davidab at telefonica.net.pe>
> Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2006.03.11 (02) [E]
>
>> From: Ben J. Bloomgren <Ben.Bloomgren at asu.edu>
>> Subject: LL-L "Grammar" 2006.03.10 (04) [E]
>>
>> "Yes, it's offal, and I think it's a homonym."
>>
>> Mark and all, is this one of those aw versus ah things? I'm too lazy
>> to go get Word and call up the IPA, but is this not the whole
>> cot/caught thing? That is, is there an inherent distinction between
>> aweful and offal wherein one has the vowel in cot and the other has
>> the vowel in caught?
>> Ben
>
>
> Yes,  for North Americans who distinguish it would be an 'awe' versus
> 'ah' thing. However, for  most of the UK and Commonwealth it's more of a
> two different types of 'awe' thing.  The 'ah' thing is found elsewhere.
>
> David Barrow
>
> ----------
>
> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Phonology
>
> Dear Fellow-Lowlanders,
>
> As though I didn't have enough to think about already, I've been
> thinking about the English word "beloved" lately.
>
> While in pretty much all Modern English dialects the <e> in past
> particial <-ed> is not sounded -- including in "loved" [lVvd] -- it is
> sounded in most people's varieties in the word "beloved" [bI"lVvId] ~
> [b@"lVv at d] (though I have heard some people pronounce it [bI"lVvd]).
>
> What's going on here?  Obviously, "beloved" is a marked item in most
> dialects.  In other words, it is an exception from the usual rule in
> phonological processing.  This phonological marking applies usually,
> if not always, to non-nativized* or semi-nativized* loanwords, I am
> wondering if "beloved" is treated as a loanword, namely as a loanword
> from archaic English, as this word is only used in a non-everyday,
> poetic or oratory style, namely in a different register.
>
> If my theory holds water, this would mean that lexical loaning can
> occur within the same language, though from one variety to another.
> We know that this can happen between dialects.  So why not between two
> varieties of different time periods?
>
> What do you think about this one, folks?  Furthermore, can you think
> of similar cases, preferably within the realm of the Lowlands?
>
I don't think it's a question of loanwords it's more a question of word
function

past participle used predicatively v past participle used as adjective/noun
she is beloved of all v dearly beloved (guests)

Past participle used as a complement of auxiliary v past participle used
as a noun/adjective:
she has aged gracefully v help the aged
they have learned the lesson v a learned professor

compare how the 'e' is pronounced in the adjectives 'naked', 'wicked',
'wretched'

> * Here's an example of stages or levels, all three dialectical
> versions of "garage":
>  Non-nativized:  [g@"rQ:Z]**
>  Semi-nativized: ["gærQZ]
>  Nativized: ["gærIdZ]
>
I have never heard 'garage' pronounced with [Q]. It's usually with
[A(:)]. I myself am nativised.

> ** "Non-nativized" means "closest generally acceptable approximation
> to the foreign pronunciation."
>
> Interestingly, this non-nativized version is prevalent in American
> English, while the other two seem to be prevalent in non-American
> English.
>
> Regards,
> Reinhard/Ron

Whereas with 'charade' it's the opposite

[S@"rA:d] UK
[tS@"reId] US

David Barrow

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Phonology

Thanks a lot, Dave.  That was very plausible.  And thanks for preventing me 
from going down the wrong path.

> compare how the 'e' is pronounced in the adjectives 'naked', 'wicked',
> 'wretched'

Sometimes it takes another person to point out the obvious.

> I have never heard 'garage' pronounced with [Q]. It's usually with
> [A(:)]. I myself am nativised.

Quite so.  [A(:)] it is.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron 

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