LL-L "Phonology" 2006.03.13 (01) [E]

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   L O W L A N D S - L * 13 March 2006 * Volume 01
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From: Leslie Decker <leslie at familydecker.org>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2006.03.12 (05) [E]

> My EFL students here in Peru must have picked this up from American
> English speakers. They often pronounce English 'ch' as [S] rather than
> [tS] even though [S] is not found natively in Spanish and [tS] is.
>
> David Barrow

IMO, this is quite normal Spanish-influenced English.  I've always
chalked it up to overcorrection, rather like a German in English
substituting [w] for [v] even where [v] is appropriate.  I was once with
someone who ordered a Weggie-lovers pizza, which the guy behind the
counter found really amusing (a 'wedgie' is American slang for someone
pulling up someone else's underwear high above their wasteband, creating
a rather uncomfortable wedge...).

Leslie

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From: Ben J. Bloomgren <Ben.Bloomgren at asu.edu>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2006.03.12 (05) [E]

Felix wrote:

> What about "blessed"? My Webster's New Encyclopedic Dictionary gives the
> pronunciations ['bles at d] and [blest]. Do those two versions have
> different meanings, or is one of them considered odd or archaic? Just
> asking.

To me, blessed with the grapheme e pronounced as a schwa is more adjectival.
When I hear it, I think of a condition, like those in the Sermon on the
Mount in the Bible. Without the schwa, blessed means something more general.
I also think of a past participle when the schwa is absent. I have had a
blessEd week because I have blessed someone.
Ben

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From: Críostóir Ó Ciardha <paada_please at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2006.03.11 (045) [E]


Ron wrote:
"As though I didn't have enough to think about already, I've been thinking 
about the English word "beloved" lately."

Another example of the phenomenon you describe is "cursed" - it can be 
either pronounced "kurst" or "kur-sed" by way of an presumed relationship to 
"accursed" ("a kur-sed")

Go raibh maith agat

Críostóir.

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From: Brooks, Mark <mark.brooks at twc.state.tx.us>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2006.03.12 (05) [E]

David Barrow wrote: "My EFL students here in Peru must have picked this up
from American English speakers. They often pronounce English 'ch' as [S]
rather than [tS] even though [S] is not found natively in Spanish and [tS]
is."

David:

It's sort of a joke around here in Texas about the seeming switch between
[tS] and [S].  Mexican-Americans often mix the two.  I work with some
English dominant Mexican-American women who jokingly talk about going to
"chopping" at the mall.  Then when something goes wrong they'll say "chit!"
On the other hand they'll say "shursh" instead of "church."

I believe the real issue is phonetic.  What they hear from us "Anglos" (for
lack of a better word) is [tS] when we are pronouncing [S].  Evidently, the
Spanish [tS] is different somehow from the English [tS].  My own guess is
that the Spanish [tS] has a little more [t] that the English one.  It seems
to me when I speak Spanish my tongue is in a slightly different place for
[tS] than in English.

Mark Brooks

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From: Karl Schulte <kschulte01 at alamosapcs.com>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2006.03.12 (01) [E]

I do believe that the beloved (vd) and beloved (ved) difference is /was 
influenced by holdovers from Elizabethan and 18th cent. by the influence of 
the King James Bible. Most folks would hear the pastor/minister/priest begin 
a wedding, a sermon, or  similar with "Dearly Beloved (ved), we are gathered 
here together in the sight of God...." , so also in poetic use. The word in 
everyday use would not be in the subjunctive sense and would be expressed as 
a simple declaritive (he loved her, Tarnation! He sure enough loved that 
there hound dog!" or "Over yonder mountain is a big stone house that is 
really loved by its owner, he won't take any amount of money for it." (Da 
droben auf jenem berg da steht ein alte schloss......). You hear "beloved" 
only in sweet talk to a beau, in poetry or in Bible/church context.

Karl 

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