LL-L "Lexicon" 2006.05.02 (05) [E]

Tue May 2 22:02:12 UTC 2006

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   L O W L A N D S - L * 02 May 2006 * Volume 05
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From: Global Moose Translations <globalmoose at t-online.de>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2006.05.02 (01) [E]

Ben quoted:
>In my eight years in America, very few of those that called me my 
>children's
>"mom" lived to see another day. ;-)

>So what on earth are you then? To us, mom and mother are one. I used to go
>around calling my mom Mother, and she hated it till the very end. To say
>that you'll somebody's mother in my generation would be very awkward.

I am their mother, of course. And they call me "Mama", or whatever they 
like, but nobody else gets to call me a "mama"", or "mum" or anything, 
because THEY are not my children (by the way, I am also not my dogs' 
"mother"!) and have no business adressing me in baby talk, which I find 
demeaning.

Hence also my objection to Ron's translation of one of my favourite songs - 
the girl doesn't call them "Papa" and "Mama" in the LS version, because 
anyone who is old enough to invite her boyfriend over to her room at night 
should have outgrown baby talk a long time ago.

Also, this word choice is very reminiscent of the ultra-conservative "Dr. 
Laura Schlesinger", and her "I am my kids' mom" campaign.

I simply objected to the lack of respect shown for the spirit of this 
beautiful old piece by adding modern slang in the translation. "Father" and 
"mother" would have done just fine, and been a whole lot more appropriate.

Anyway, this is not terribly important, is it? Sheesh.

Gabriele Kahn

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From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2006.05.02 (01) [E]

So, Gabriele, what happened to the ones that did call you "mom" -
are they still around? ;-)
And is this the same for you when in German they call you a "Mutti",
or in Dutch a "mama"?

I don't know about Mutti and Mutter, but in Dutch one will say to a
younger child "Waar is je mama?" (where's your mom) more often than
"Waar is je moeder?" (where's your mother). For older children and adults
on the other hand, "mama" would sound childish when speaking about her,
but I wouldn't dream of calling my female parent "moeder" when I address
to her, then it's "mama" or "mam". When I'm talking to my wife about my
mother, I usually say "ma", and "oma" with my children.

But in the Southern Netherlands (Brabant) people always say "ons mam"
(our mom) to everyone, even Barbara (my spouse) does, even though she has
no brothers or sisters, it's always "our", never "my"...

Groetjes
Ingmar

>From: Ben J. Bloomgren <Ben.Bloomgren at asu.edu>
>Subject: LL-L "Literature" 2006.04.29 (16) [E]
>
>In my eight years in America, very few of those that called me my
children's
>"mom" lived to see another day. ;-)
>
>So what on earth are you then? To us, mom and mother are one. I used to go
>around calling my mom Mother, and she hated it till the very end. To say
>that you'll somebody's mother in my generation would be very awkward.
>Ben

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Lexicon

Ingmar:

> I don't know about Mutti and Mutter, but in Dutch one will say to a
> younger child "Waar is je mama?" (where's your mom) more often than
> "Waar is je moeder?" (where's your mother).

The German equivalent applies in Germany as well, certainly when speaking to 
smaller children.

Yesterday's slang is today's standard.

In Britain, Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the USA, at the very least, 
the use of "mum" ~ "mom" and "dad" is not slang but is standard in most 
vernacular forms of English, whereas, as Ben indicated, the use of "mother" 
and "father" is pretty much unacceptable in many or most dialects and social 
situations, sounding "bookish," "clinical," "harsh," "stand-offish," "cold," 
etc.  Whilst I was not taught this in school, real-life experience soon made 
me accept it and adapt to it.  It has never occurred to me to reject it or 
pass judgment on it, least of all because this is not my native language and 
culture.

Cheers!
Reinhard/Ron 

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