LL-L 'Customs' 2006.10.30 (01) [E]

[Lowlands-L]

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L O W L A N D S - L * 30 October 2006 * Volume 02
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From: 'Rikus Kiers' [kiersbv at tiscali.nl]
Subject: LL-L 'Membership' 2006.10.29 (01) [E/LS]

Dear all,

Politeness is a good matter but you can overdue.
What Gabriele wrote is so very recognisable for me as a born Drent. It is
again a proof that Saxxon culture really exists despite of formal borders.
In Drenthe and other saxxon areas you simply accept eachother or not. You
don't tell your feelings. You show them(but only a wee little bit)..
There is another phenomenon in Drenthe. If you act according to the
unwritten rules you never push yourself to become someone in a function in
public or company.
If you are asked you say no. If they really want you they ask you a second
time. Then you say:" well. if you want me, I am hesitating, but I shall try.
And you are in.
In the western dutch culture you have to push yourself or otherwise they
think you are not interested and they pass you.
It is a question of feeling the culture to pick it up. Outsiders mostly
don't.

I love this list and their members,

Rikus kiers

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From: Pat Reynolds [pat at caerlas.demon.co.uk]
Subject: LL-L 'Membership' 2006.10.29 (01) [E/LS]

In message <200610300009.k9U09epC010627 at listserv.linguistlist.org>,
Lowlands-L (i.e. gabrielle) <lowlands-l at lowlands-l.net> writes
>I once went to visit friends in my village; I had been gone for two years
>then. They had no door bell, so I just stepped right into their kitchen,
>they all said hello, and then continued doing whatever they had been busy
>with, allowing me to settle in, but not making a fuss over me. This way, it
>felt like coming home, and like I had never been gone. I was still part of
>the family, not just some visitor. And this is what it's like with most of
>my old friends.

This is fascinating - what if you walked in just as your neightbor
declared his love for his wife? Who would be 'at fault' - you, for
walking in, or him, for declaring love in so public a place as his
kitchen?

Cheers,

Pat

-- 
Pat Reynolds

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From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Customs

Moyen, Rikus!

> I love this list and their members,

Well, look who's "Americanized" there!  ;-)

I for one appreciate and return the sentiment, though.

It is a relatively new thing that (according to Gabriele) "Americans will say "I love
you" in public ten times a day and more."  I believe it germinated in the 1960s
and 1970s when younger Americans discovered that emotional uptightness and
non-expression of feelings were at the root of many social ills in their
families, neighborhoods and country, when many young Americans had died in
Vietnam and their families, especially their macho-raised fathers, regretted
never having told them, especially their sons, that they loved them.

Yes, *anything* can degenerate into mere fashion and can thus seem to lose its
intended meaning and importance.  This in itself should not be seen as devaluing
the actual intent.  We are talking about one country's search for discovery and
recovery.  At the very least we can say that a large section of American society
has been searching for improvement, while large sections of populations at home
and in other countries avoid change, are stuck in the mud of time and tend to
shrug off American changes as flaky, shallow experimentation -- except that a
couple or so decades later they follow the trend anyway.  Personally, I do not
reject experimentation, since this is at least a sign that folks are still
striving toward *something.*

Mind you, there are many areas and social groups in the US where this sort of
innovation is regarded with as much suspicion and disdain as in the most
conservative corners of Europe.  You don't have to travel far away from the large
cities to notice this, and I dare say the same is true in Europe.

And, yes, there's a great deal of cultural diversity even among Americans of
European descent.  A couple of days ago, a coworker of mine got a call from back
in Boston and was told that her great-aunt had passed away and that she
"shouldn't come."  To the rest of us (mostly West Coast people) this sounded
rather strange, if not rude, and two persons from Philadelphia and Pittsburgh
respectively agreed with that.  Being a New Englander herself Lisa understood
that this message meant "It would be nice if you could come, but we'd understand
if you weren't able or willing to."  This reminded me a bit of my childhood in
which this sort of "code" or "double-talk" was common.

Kumpelmenten,
Reinhard/Ron

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