SPAM:: LL-L 'Language politics' 2006.09.23 (01) [E]

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A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
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L O W L A N D S - L * 23 September 2006 * Volume 01
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From: Luc Hellinckx [luc.hellinckx at gmail.com]
Subject: LL-L 'Resources'

Beste Ron,

You wrote:
> Ex- bloody act-ly! That's been quite the struggle. In the meantime people have
> been talking themselves into believing they're dealing with two languages on
> account of Dutch vs. German influences. Convenient, ain't it? Though the
> orthography question is a hairy one and one of the main reasons for their
> exclusivity attitude. You see, otherwise they'd actually have to sit down with
> their neighbors and come up with a new compromise solution, and that sort of
> flies in the face of the old belief that "Platt" is a subset of German. (Old
> Charly the Frank [or Carlitos Francisco] did his job very thoroughly. Don't you
> think?
If people in Germany would officially acknowledge that Saxon is being
spoken across the border on Dutch territory, they would also have to
agree that "Fränkische Sprachen" are also spoken outside Germany
(Belgium, Netherlands, France).

And...that's a bit of a problem.

Because for roughly a century now, many Belgian and Dutch people have
been totally opposed to that perspective (don't count me in)...not in
the least because of 19th century international politics. Some German
policymakers could be aware of this sensitivity and maybe that's why
they refrain from looking across the border in general.

Ah well...history can be a heavy burden I guess. If you don't learn from
the mistakes you made, it's wrong...and if you do learn, it's just as wrong.

Or should the message rather be: Look, but don't touch? :-D

Kind greetings,

Luc Hellinckx

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From: R. F. Hahn [sassisch at yahoo.com]
Subject: Language politics

Hi, Luc!

I think you're on to something, and I agree with your assessment.

But ...

You're talking about Belgium, and Belgium is a really "weird" case, as most of us
know by now--not having ratified the European Language Charter and not having any
intention to do so anytime soon, thus remaining entrenched in the uneasy
Franco-Dutch stalemate, much to the detriment of other minority languages, such
as Limburgish, that would profit from official recognition and protection. My
point is that measuring other countries' situations and attitudes against Belgian
ones is problematic to begin with. The situation in the Netherlands is more
straightforeford, despite serious problems in 20th-century German-Dutch relations
and (understandable) residual traces of distrust on the part of many
Netherlanders. Both Germany and the Netherlands have ratified the Charter and
have both officially recognized Low Saxon as a regional language in their
respective countries.  However, they give it different names, and German
associations are pretending that the dialects on Netherlands soil constitute a
different language. In my experience, most Netherlanders that have a sense of
"Low Saxon" (rather than only of their little dialects) subscribe to the position
that it's one language, despite different influences and orthography. Many
express it cautiously as "... are very closely related to the Low German dialects
of Northern Germany," perhaps because they are aware of the predominant German
position.

When I challenge this predominant German position, the explanation (often feeling
to me like taking me aside and whispering to me as a compatriot) tends to range
between "Hey! You know how weird and touchy the Dutch are!" and more officiously
"Post-War German-Netherlands relations have been rather delicate and fraught with
highly sensitive issues." The implications have been that it is too sensitive an
area to tread on and that the sensitivity, understandable though it is, rests
squarely on the Netherlands' side. In other words, the implication is that
cross-border unification cannot or should not be attempted, not only because of
certain levels of alienation but also because of Dutch touchiness. While I
consider the former a debatable point at least, and I personally believe that the
gulf can be crossed (for instance by means of a unified orthographic system and
mutual exposure -- and take our Jonny, for instance, who understands our "Dutch"
relative very well, because he *wants* to), I consider the "sensitivity" argument
a type of cop-out, an excuse that blames people in the Netherlands for being
obstacles when in reality it is primarily German individuals and organizations
that constitute the obstacles in this matter.  I am not completely sure why this
is, though my suspicion is that there is an underlying attitude of
territorialism, a perceived need to preserve the convenience of not having to
deal with issues internationally, for instance coming up with a language-wide
orthography in international collaboration and thus most likely having to
sacrifice the "High German look" of spelling the language in Germany. (The usual
explanation I am given for retaining the German-based system boils down to
declaring the average speaker too unintelligent for coping with "foreign"
spelling, even though most of these speakers did fine with English spelling,
perhaps also French, etc.)

I personally have never encountered any Saxon-speaking Netherlander that rejected
the notion of one language across the Netherlands-German border, though they do
recognize the spelling issue as a sticky point and realize that Dutch influences
on their side may be inconvenient to some people east of the border. On the
contrary, in my attitude and endeavors I have been receiving understanding and
support from far more Netherlanders than Germans. This includes a whole range of
Netherlanders, from those in their early twenties to three well-known elderly
(80+) Low Saxon writers that remember Low Saxon being used for buttering up
Eastern Netherlanders for the Nazi cause and the fear of being seen as
collaborators by their Dutch compatriots during and after the occupation. Is
there perhaps something different about me that I receive these responses? I
don't really think so. I just talk about it and do something rather than say,
"Agh, let's not even go there!" The Low Saxon literature competitions of the City
of Leer (Eastern Friesland) explicitly invite submissions from both sides of the
border, and the Freudenthal Society is by now known to welcome submissions from
the Netherlands and other countries (and another Netherlander, the Groninger Jan
Glas, is one of this year's two winners, so far the second since 2001). "If you
build it they will come." And they did come. When I served on the Freudenthal
Jury, there were five or six submissions from the Netherlands, and I've been told
that the number has increased since then.

Kumpelmenten,
Reinhard/Ron

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