LL-L 'Names' 2006.09.24 (01) [E]

Sun Sep 24 18:27:35 UTC 2006

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L O W L A N D S - L * 24 September 2006 * Volume 01
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From: 'Roger Thijs, Euro-Support, Inc.' <roger.thijs at euro-support.be>
Subject: LL-L Names

Saturday, in an antiquarian bookshop, I found a book "Duitse vlugschriften
van de tijd over het proces en de terechtstelling van de protestanten Frans
en Nikolaas Thys te Mechelen (1555)" by dr Foncke, 1937, 189 pp.
(German pamphets about the execution of the protestants Frans and Nikolaas
Thys in Mechelen in 1555)
No pamphlets were found in Dutch, 2 series in high German, 1 in Low German.
Dutch, French and Latin records were found in other sources though.

Curious for me is how the name Thys got variations.

In Dutch it is already an issue since:
"ei" and "ij" are used for the same phoneme in modernDutch.
"ij" was spelled "y" in older spelling systems
"ei" was also spelled as "eij" and "ey" incidentally.

Curious in Dutch is also that while for diphtongs at the beginning of the
word, only the first character is eventually printed in capital, while for
ij both are:
e.g. "Ou" in Oudenaarde, while "IJ" in IJsland.
Also curious is that in most dictionaries IJ is sorted as I + J, while some
(as Winkler Prins) mixed it up wit "Y".

My father got "Thys" on his pasport, I have "Thijs" (as recorded on my birth
certificate).
For healt insurance I'm also "Thys" though, and their computer system does
not allow to correct this, because of logged history.

Back to our book.

Local sources:

In Latin:
"1555 - Franciscus et Nicolaus _Thys_, cives Mechliniences, germani fratres,
vitae sortisque exitum habuÃªre tristissimum." etc. etc.

In Dutch: (Haamstede, Historien, print of 1634)
"Te Mechelen in Brabant is geweest een burger genaemt Andreas _Thijs_ ende
sijn huysvrou Catherina _Thijs_ / dese hebben ghehadt vier kinderen / dry
sonen ende een dochter" etc etc
(ij and y as in "dry" may still have been different phonemes at the time;
"dry" is "drie" in modern Dutch, but "drai", "dreei" etc in many dialects)

In a French text by Jean Crespin (16th century) , not quoted in detail, one
uses "Matthys" as well as "Diessen".

Comment:
Thyssen may as well come from "(Ma)thijs+zoon"
as also (more probaly I think) from a week genitive on -en
(Thys-en, similar to Daen-en and many other names).
It's curious that the Th changed into D. I don't know whether the "h" in
"th" was a phoneme in the 16th century, or just an heritage from Latin:
Matheus.

In German (Martyroloog of Ludwig Rabe) 1557:
"Franciscus vnd Nicolaus _Thiessen_ / gebru1der zu2 Mechel in Brabannt
verbraÃ±t."
"Zv Mechel in Brabant / ist gesessen Eyn burger / genannt Andreas _Diessen_
/ vnd sein Hauszfrauw Hatharina _Diessin_ etc.

So we have "Thiessen", "Diessen" and "Diessin".
For u1 in gebru1der the text has an "e" above the u
For u2 in zu2 the text has an "o" above the u
Use of "u" and "v" is not consistent.

First High-German pamphlet (with 4 variants):
In the titelpage:
"... Vnnd die zwen Eltesten So1ne/ mit nam2en Frantz _Thiessen_ der Elter /
vnnd Niclaus _Thiessen_ der JÃ¼nger..."
So1ne: o1 stands for o with an other o above
nam2en: m2 stands for m with an horizontal accent.
In the text:
"Zv Mechel in Brabandt / ist gesessen ein Burger / genandt Andreas _Diessen_
/ vnd sein Hausfraw3 Katharina _Diessin_..."
Hausfraw3: w3 stands for a flat semi-circle accent, open to above.

Again we have "Thiessen", "Diessen" and "Diessin".

An other High-German pamphlet (with 3 variants)
"... als nemlich zween Bru1der / Franciscum _Thisz_ / welcher der Elter
gewesen ist / vnd Nicolaum _Thisz_ / samt jrer Mutter Cornelia ... "etc.
Bru1der: u1 stands fur u with an o above

Here we have "Thisz".

In a Low-German pamphlet (printed by Balhoorn (+1591) in LÃ¼beck):
"... DesÃ¼luigen Personen alse no1mlick twe Bro1der / Franciscum _Thisz_/
welke2r de o1ldeste gewe2sen ys / vnd Nicolaum _Thisz_/ samt e2rer Moder
Cornelia___" etc, etc.

no1mlick Bro1der; o1ldeste : o1 stands for o with a small o above
welke2r, gewe2sen, e2rer: e2 stands for e with a small o above

Here we have also "Thisz".

Is it normal that gewesen has the prefix ge- in Low German?

Further in the text:
the ge- prefix is rather the rule, e.g.:
"Frage: Wol hefft yuw dat Olde vnd Nye Testamente geleret?"
"Antwordt: Wy hebbent gele2sen / vnde in DÃ¼desschem Lande geho1ret vnde
Gades ynsettinge geseen / vnd de Hillige Geist heft dat gedient gege2uen."
"Frage der Papisten: Wat holden gy van der Ro1misschen Kercken / ys se nicht
de hillige Christlike kercke" etc.
(for "e2" and "o1" see above)

We find back our Brabantish "gy", but "nicht" sounds rather High German.

Conclusion (I think):
Names were spelled as to the local rules.

Regards,
Roger

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