LL-L "Demographics" 2007.04.13 (02) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

L O W L A N D S - L  -  13 April 2007 - Volume 03

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From: Wesley Parish <wes.parish at paradise.net.nz>
Subject: LL-L "Demographics" 2007.04.12 (03) [E]

On Friday 13 April 2007 08:46, Lowlands-L List wrote:
<snip>
> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Demographics
>
> I thought that, unless they have been stripped of it or have gone out of
> their way to lose it (both of which happen very, very rarely), all British
> citizens retain their British citizenship, no matter where and no matter
if
> they acquired other citizenships. So the same applies to British people in
> Australia, whether they have Australian citizenship in addition or not.
 We
> don't really know if these people with dual citizenship are counted as
> British in those countries.  I rather suspect they are not.  So the actual
> numbers must be a lot greater than those reported.
>
> Canada and Australia now have the same type of citizenship law as does
> Britain. (I don't know about New Zealand.) Its philosophical basis appears

New Zealand's citizenship law is quite similar.  The major differences
between
Australian and New Zealand citizenship law that I'm aware of, is that if an
Australian citizen acquires another citizenship, unless it is unavoidable
given the circumstances, he loses his Australian citizenship a la the US
citizenship law, whereas the New Zealand citizenship law requires that the
person acquiring the new citizenship to specifically renounce their previous
New Zealand citizenship; and New Zealand citizenship law provides that if
you
were born overseas of New Zealand citizens, you are a New Zealand citizen,
but if your children are born overseas, they are not New Zealand citizens -
unless you are on state business.
> to be that citizenship is inalienable, whether acquired by birth or by
> choice.  It affords citizens'  foreign-born children the same citizenship
> and their grandchildren special rights regarding immigration and
> citizenship acquisition (in the case of Britain a type of remigration
> allowance for those with at least one grandparent having been a citizen).

I'm a fourth and sixth generation Kiwi all around, but with an Australian
grandfather courtesy of my mother's side.  But I was born overseas, in Papua
New Guinea, no less ... citizenship law has some absurdities, no doubt about
that.  I've made use of that in some fiction:
"The Sacrament of the Sharing of Prey"
http://pandora.nla.gov.au/pan/10063/20040601/www.antisf.com/stories/story05.htm

(Please note: I am _NOT_ responsible for that atrocious drawing - nor is
Uan,
who looks like an ordinary human female, apart from her claws, her massive
shoulders and jaws ... ;)  Enter Uan, somewhere in the south of a planet
orbiting the G2 star of the Alpha Centauri binary system:

"According to Rakhebuityan midwife-chieftainesses visiting the Earth
Embassy,
Uan was her father's spitting image, definitely Rakhebuityan! And
Rakhebuityan worshipped Li' Abare u Ngafe [The Father of the Waters], who
sacrificed himself for his people in the springtime's fishes' thronging.
Eating a speaking being â€"even metaphorically â€" horrified Lakhabrech such
as
Akhriech, but this wasn't her mother's damnation."

Her father's Rakhebuityan - translated "fisheaters"; her mother's Lakhabrech
-
translated "free blood".  Both parents are dead, and both sets of tribes are
quarreling over whose children they are. ;)  (Rakhebuityan are somewhat
matriarchal, but accept occasional patrilineal lines; Lakhabrech are
matriarchal, and her matrilineal descent overrides details such as their
damnation of her mother for some unrepented crimes - murder - committed
against the midwife-chieftainess, no less. ;)

Wesley Parish
>
> I have a feeling that this is the thing of the future.  Why, even
> Germanynow allows emigrants to apply for retention of their German
> citizenship when
> they acquire another one, and those that lost their German citizenship
> earlier may now apply to have it restored (if they are wealthy enough ...
> and if they can prove connections, Germanness and German language
> proficiency ... and it helps if they declare that they are willing to drop
> other citizenships ...)!  That really tells you that things are beginning
> to shift.  However, it seems to me that in this case ethnicity (including
> culture and language) is a prerequisit (thus echoes of the old "country =
> ethnicity" model), while in the case of Australia, Britain and Canada it
is
> not. (It would be interesting to see if a person would be acceptable in
> Germany if they didn't speak German or Low Saxon but only Danish, Frisian,
> Sorbian or Romany, which are official minority languages.)

I heard that Germany granted Volga Germans automatic citizenship if they
applied for it during the 1990s.  Mind you, it was probably necessary at
some
stages - Russia had its own ethnicity demons to deal with.  But a fair
number
of the Volga Germans couldn't at the time speak German of any dialect, so
Germany retracted that during the 2000s.
>
> Mind you, other countries have had citizenship laws similar to that of
> Britiain for a long time.  I remember that even in the 1960s and 1970s
many
> young American, Canadian and Australian men traveling to Greece or
> Yugoslavia as their ancestral countries found themselves drafted as
> soldiers there. Australian friends of mine that were born and raised in
> Israel are unable to get rid of their Israeli citizenship no matter what
> they do, and their Australian-born daughter, whose birth was only
> registered in Australia, is likely to get drafted if she visits her
> grandparents in Israel.  One of my current neighbors is in a similar
> situation; while she visits relatives in Israel, her American-born son
> stays home.  (But let's not forget that many, probably more, Jewish people
> do want to serve in Israel and acquire citizenship for that purpose. I
> personally know two persons that have done that.)
>
> Regards,
> Reinhard/Ron

--
Clinersterton beademung, with all of love - RIP James Blish
-----
Gaul is quartered into three halves.  Things which are
impossible are equal to each other.  Guerrilla
warfare means up to their monkey tricks.
Extracts from "Schoolboy Howlers" - the collective wisdom
of the foolish.
-----
Mau e ki, he aha te mea nui?
You ask, what is the most important thing?
Maku e ki, he tangata, he tangata, he tangata.
I reply, it is people, it is people, it is people.

----------

From: Ed Alexander <edsells at cogeco.ca>
Subject: LL-L "Demographics" 2007.04.12 (05) [E]

At 08:01 PM 04/12/07 -0700, Ron wrote:

>OK, Ed, payback time for the squirrel affair?

Oh, no - I'm quite proud of that award - the highest award ever granted to
an "amateur."

> > Actually, that's not true, as I vote in two countries quite legally, as
> > does my daughter.
>
>Are you sure it's legal? I was expressly told that it isn't.

That's because they know whom you vote for.

> > Okay, smart guy, which passport should I use when leaving Canada and
> > entering the US, and vice versa.
>
>Here at the crossing between Washington State and British Columbia, going
>north I'd show US emigration the US passport, then stash it away and whip
>out the Canadian one for Canadian immigration a few feet down the road,
>and on the way back I'd do it the other way around.  If you don't have
>this double border thingy, well, then I guess you've got a pro blem and
>must go through a third country.  Oops!  I forgot!  There ain't no other
>country near Canada!  Oh, dear!  How about Greenland or Russia?  At least
>they're cold enough.

Seriously, it really depends on who you're talking to.  You might try
asking each border official their opinion about this each time you
cross.  You'll be amazed at the different answers.  However, the best
advice given to me was by a black lady at the US kiosk.  When entering the
US, show your US status, and vice versa, since they will have a much harder
time keeping out their own nationals.  Black people and Natives are the
best to ask, since they've had the longest experience in passing into and
out of Canada.  Your readers may be interested to learn that the NAACP
(National Association for the Advancement of Colored People) was founded in
St. Catharines, Ontario, when they were all refused rooms at every hotel in
Buffalo for their first convention.

BTW, there is another country near Canada.  It's a short boat trip from
Newfoundland to St Pierre & Miquelon, which are
French.  http://www.heritage.nf.ca/exploration/pierre_miquelon.html

Salut et bon voyage!  Ed Alexander

----------

From: Marcel Bas <roepstem at hotmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Demographics" 2007.04.12 (05) [E]

Reinhard wrote:

> So tell Borat "Tishe!"  He'll understand.  He's playing with you -- and I
mean this in the nicest possible way.

Haha! Yes, this guy is full of Polish words. People don't seem to notice
that in the US and A.

Friends of mine in Kazakhstan think the Borat movie is very funny, though.

Dziękuję.

Marcel.

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Demographics

Wesley, you seem to be talking about the old Australian citizenship laws.
Since the changes of 2002, an Australian citizen acquiring another
citizenship is no longer stripped of his or her Australian citizenship.

Ed, how could I have forgotten those tiny specks of France new
Newfoundland.  See, you could always catch the frequently running express
between there and major ports in the US.

Marcel, as you may have noticed, any age can do with a Till Ulenspeghel.
How can you tell you're dealing with one?  Uul (owl) stands for "clever,"
and the "speghel" (mirror) is held up for everyone to see him- or herself.
Uncomfortable?  Yep!  That's the idea.  And that doesn't only go for
Americans.

Happy Friday the Thirteenth!

Reinhard/Ron
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