LL-L "History" 2007.04.26 (05) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

L O W L A N D S - L  -  26 April 2007 - Volume 05

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From: "list at marcusbuck.org" <list at marcusbuck.org>
Subject: LL-L "History" 2007.04.26 (04) [E]

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: History

> This
> continued until our time. I remember from my childhood
> whispered-word-of-mouth referral to certain neighbors that practised
clearly
> Wicca-derived healing arts or divining.

Still in the end of the 1980ies when I was a little boy my mother
brought me to a woman, who had to bespeak (is this the right word? In
German "besprechen") my warts (they vanished after it). But I am a bit
sceptical whether this folk beliefs are really descended of a "wicca
religion". Wicca is in the first place a modern pop culture
phenomenon, which claims to be in the tradition of older beliefs. Is
there really anything known about those old beliefs? Despite the fact,
that it *may have existed* and some rituals of folk belief *could be*
related to it?

> We saw a
> glimpse of that in Germany, Austria, Italy and Japan not all that long
ago,
> well after the Middle Ages.

The willingness to believe in that time was another type than that of
the middle ages. "happily pious belief in whatever doctrine is
declared official" is not very fair to the people of the middle ages.
They were not that sheepish. They had own opinions too and disagreed
with the guys who had the power, but they had not the possibility to
change the world.

> I am sure that the spirits of the millions and millions of medieval people
> that were tortured, burnt, quartered or whatever horrible thing for
> believing differently or not at all would agree with your assessment,
> Karl-Heinz.

According to Wikipedia modern scholars believe about 40000-60000
people were killed in witch-hunts (and a good part of this phenomenon
took place in the modern times) and the numbers of people killed
through inquisition are disputed too. This "millions and millions"
thing maybe is only a "dark age" legend. At least we people of the
20th century shouldn't be too condemning about the people of the dark
age. The 20th century was the most brutal and dehumanized in history
and this episode is not finished yet. Think of the bombs on Hiroshima
and Nagasaki. People killed a hundred thousand by pushing a button.

Intellect is a prerequisite to being evil and it is too the best
weapon to fight evil. (No good precondition for Bush's fight against
the axis of evil...)

Good gahn (maakt wi't mol as de Westfäälschen 't doot ;-))
Marcus Buck

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: History

Marcus,

I was not talking about New Age versions of Wicca.  I do agree, though, that
the use of that name was misleading, since "Wicca" now primarily refers to
the New Age brand, a reconstructive brand.  I should have used "Witchcraft"
(capitalized) to be precise, but this is easily misunderstood also.

In Low Saxon (Low German), the nouns Wicker 'male witch', 'wizard',
'warlock', and Wickersch(e) 'female witch' clearly refer to the older system
of sourcerers. Old English has wicca for 'sourcerer', Old Norse vitki.

Furthermore, I wrote:

> (using this as a catch-all label for Wicca and other religions)

I mean by this all the Volksglauben ("folk belief") varieties that to all
intents and purposes are forms of shamanism, holistic belief systems in
which there were no boundaries between "real" life and the spirit world,
between food and medicine, between animate and inanimate, etc.  These
usually include practices of psychic healing, divining, magic and
necromancy, also reverence to both "positive" and "negative" forces.  They
appear to have represented the westernmost extension of Eurasian shamanism
of which many varieties are still alive in Central Asia and Siberia. Most of
them did not have names and have been generally labeled "Witchcraft,"
"Heathenry" or "Paganism."

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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