LL-L "Language maintenance" 2007.08.07 (07) [E]
Lowlands-L List
lowlands.list at gmail.com
Tue Aug 7 20:54:56 UTC 2007
=======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226
http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands.list at gmail.com
Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/rules.php
Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org - lowlands.list at gmail.com
Commands ("signoff lowlands-l" etc.): listserv at listserv.net
Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html
Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html
Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]
Administration: lowlands.list at gmail.com or sassisch at yahoo.com
You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)
=======================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L - 07 August 2007 - Volume 07
========================================================================
From: "Clarkedavid8 at aol.com" <Clarkedavid8 at aol.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language maintenance" 2007.08.07 (06) [E]
In a message dated 07/08/2007 21:17:25 GMT Standard Time,
lowlands.list at GMAIL.COM writes:
Sounds hard but logical to me...how can you expect the speakers from a
dying language to welcome outside forces, if the very reason why the
concerned language is not surviving is because it was unable/unwilling
to cope with major external (linguistic) influence?
Methinks, adaptation, survival of the fittest, does not only apply to
biology.
Kind greetings,
Luc Hellinckx
I think it is very naive and even dangerous to equate the survival and
extinction of languages with the survival and extinction of natural
organisms. Languages usually flourish because they happen to be spoken by a
hegemonistic community, not because they are in any way intrinsically
superior than languages that die out.
David Clarke
----------
From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at scotstext.org>
Subject: LL-L "Language maintenance" 2007.08.06 (06) [E]
> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Language maintenance
>
> Hi, Mike!
>
> Thanks, but for the record: you quoted not me but David Clark who
> wrote that in response to my request for responses.
>
> Be that as it may, I must say that I've long tried to grapple with the
> type of attitude the two of you referred to.
I have to say that when I was living in Wales and learning Welsh all
Welsh speakers were very helpful about it. The only problem I had was
with Welsh nationals who didn't speak Welsh and didn't see the point.
Is it possible that the problem is partly with the learner? I think that
one barrier might be language learners who try to speak the language but
don't seem interested in the culture. When I was learning Welsh I also
read up on things like Madog, the Bells of Aberdovey, Welsh history, I
watched the Welsh TV channels (usually only subtitled in English, alas,
when I lived there) and so on, and this gave a basis for conversation so
that I didn't keep tripping up on things that were common knowledge
amongst Welsh speakers. I could also ask intelligent questions about
such stuff and draw Welsh speakers into my conversation.
> * Linguistic tribalism ("Language is part of 'us against them
> (the power majority and outside)'.")
> * Linguistic exclusivity ("It's our language, our secret
> code, and nobody else should touch or even use it.")
> * Linguistic chauvinism ("Only we are the keepers of the proper
> language.")
> * Linguistic racism ("No one that doesn't look like us
> can possibly speak like us and understand our
> culture.")
Strategically pruning a few bullet points that I don't encounter, these
are the sort of attitudes I'm facing at the moment in the Deaf
communities here with respect to BSL.
Again, I think learners can do things to help themselves, especially if
they go about in gangs like me and my former BSL classmates do :)
Then again, I wouldn't want to overgeneralise: the attitude of the Deaf
in one town can be completely different from that in another and on top
of that there are always individual differences of opinion.
In many towns around here the Deaf are only too pleased to find their
clubs (or, more common these days, pub meets) swelled by an influx of
language students, hearing and otherwise. On the other hand, my local
town has been notorious for objecting vehemently to any hearing people
turning up at the club. Last year me and another student retaliated by
forming our regular BSL student meet, and then we kept inviting Deaf
people to it. As a result, the native Deaf here have started to accept
the idea of hearing students coming along to their club, because they
come to ours and get used to our faces and end up owing us the return
favour and so on.
I think if you're having these sort of attitude problems the ball is in
your court: the attitudes are there and won't change if you just let
them be.
Sandy Fleming
http://scotstext.org/
•
==============================END===================================
* Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.
* Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.
* Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.
* Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l")
are to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at
http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.
*********************************************************************
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lowlands-l/attachments/20070807/810f7dd5/attachment.htm>
More information about the LOWLANDS-L
mailing list