LL-L "Grammar" 2007.08.28 (05) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

L O W L A N D S - L  -  28 August 2007 - Volume 05
Song Contest: lowlands-l.net/contest/ (- 31 Dec. 2007)
=========================================================================

From: Luc Hellinckx <luc.hellinckx at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Grammar"

Beste Ron,

You wrote:

> In all of the above constructions, the first occurrence of the
> personal pronoun is optional and is often used emphatically, while the
> second occurrence is mandatory.  As is suggested by the spelled forms,
> the second occurrence is enclitic.  This means that the pronoun has
> been fused with the preceding verbs construction to some degree, not
> to the degree of a suffix (which in Uyghur is fully integrated into
> the word's phonology: stress assignment and vowel harmony).  In some
> other Turkic languages, full suffixization of these former personal
> pronouns has indeed taken place.  In theory at least, this could
> happen in Ostend Western Flemish if it were left to its own devices,
> i.e., came to be isolated from related language varieties.  Just for
> the "fun" of it, let me show you what this would most likely look like
> (hypothetically, mind you):

Double use of a personal pronoun also occurs in Brabantish,

e.g. "ge hoort gij maar met één oor" ~ "g'hoeër(t) gaa màà mé iën oeër"
( ~ "you're listening with one ear only" (E))

but in contrast with Uyghur the first pronoun is mandatory and the
second one is used for emphasis. If even more stress is necessary, a
third pronoun is used:

"ge hoort ge gij maar met één oor" ~ "g'hoeër(t) ge gaa màà mé iën oeër"

This leads to the following situation for the other pronouns:

"ik hoor ik ik niet goed"
"ge hoort ge gij niet goed"
"hij hoort en hij niet goed", "ze hoort ze zij niet goed"
"me horen me wijlie niet goed"
"ge hoort ge gijlie niet goed"
"ze horen ze zijlie niet goed"

(read more here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clitic_doubling)

Some degree of suffixization can be seen when a question is asked, like
"Hoor jij goed?" A confirming answer would then be:

"jaak" (< ja-ik)

When a second or third person is addressed, this becomes respectively:

"jaach" and "jaan"/"jaas"/"jaat"

Plural: "jaam", "jaach", "jaas"

(similar for denial "nee")

Kind greetings,

Luc Hellinckx

PS: Just back from a cycling trip along the Dalmatian coast, so I'm
lagging behind; trying to catch up.

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Grammar

Hi, Luc, and thanks!

I hope you had a good time in Dalmatia.  I remember the area with fondness.

You didn't miss all that much. Folks have been lazy.

Don't many or most Brabantish varieties have (East) Flemish substrates?
Could this feature belong to it?

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lowlands-l/attachments/20070828/d417cb6f/attachment.htm>