LL-L "Etymology" 2007.12.06 (06) [E/F/LS]

Thu Dec 6 21:46:11 UTC 2007

L O W L A N D S - L  -  05 December 2007 - Volume 06
Song Contest: lowlands-l.net/contest/ (- 31 Dec. 2007)
=========================================================================

From: Marcus Buck <list at marcusbuck.org>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2007.12.06 (01) [E/LS]

From: R. F. Hahn < sassisch at yahoo.com> <mailto:sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Lexicon
>
> Och, nee, nee! Daar heff ik 'n asigen Fehlter maakt. Nähm mi dat maal
> nich för ungood!
>
> L. Saxon | German
> vos (Foss)  |  Fuchs  'fox'
> los (Loss)  |  Luchs  'lynx'
> Sassen  |  Sachsen  'Saxons(-y)'
> was (Wass)  |  Wachs  'wax'
> wassen  |  wachsen  (wax) 'grow'
> vlas (Flass)  |  Flachs  'flax'
> büs (Büss)  |  Büchse  'box', 'pants'
>
> Kumpelmenten,
> Reinhard/Ron
>
Ik heff mi al dacht, dat dat so meent weer ;-) Aver bi Voss, Loss, Wass,
Vlass un Buss hebbt Nedderlandsch un Plattdüütsch desülven Wöör. Blot bi
Sassen/Saksen is dor de Ünnerscheed. Mien Fraag blifft also.

Marcus Buck

----------

From: Henno Brandsma <hennobrandsma at hetnet.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2007.12.06 (01) [E/LS]

From: Marcus Buck <list at marcusbuck.org>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2007.12.05 (04) [E/LS]

From: R. F. Hahn < sassisch at yahoo.com <mailto: sassisch at yahoo.com>>
> Subject: Lexicon
>
> Good deal, Heiko!
>
> The sound differences are consistent:
>
> Dutch | German
> vos (Foss)  |  Fuchs  'fox'
> los (Loss)  |  Luchs  'lynx'
> Sassen  |  Sachsen  'Saxons(-y)'
> was (Wass)  |  Wachs  'wax'
> wassen  |  wachsen  (wax) 'grow'
> vlas (Flass)  |  Flachs  'flax'
> büs (Büss)  |  Büchse  'box', 'pants'
Dor heff ik mi al fröher mal över wunnert, över ene Saak: Du seggst
"Dutch: Sassen". För dat Plattdüütsche stimmt dat, aver Nedderlandsch un
Nedersaksisch hebbt dor "Saksen". Dat passt also nich ganz to'n Rest.
Hett dor dat Latiensche rinspeelt? Oder wo kummt dat vun af?
Hebbt de Sassen op de nedderlandsche Siet vun'e Grenz würklich jemehr
egenen Naam ut en annere Spraak övernahmen oder is de Ünnerscheed doch
dör Luudgesetten to verkloren?

Dit liket sa te wêzen: der besteane wol plaknammen as "Sassenheim" (yn it
westen, nuverdernoch), dy't
derop tsjutte dat de foarm "Sassen" earder wol gewoan wie.....

Marcus Buck

----------

From: R. F. Hahn < sassisch at yahoo.com> <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Lexicon

Och, nee, nee! Daar heff ik 'n asigen Fehlter maakt. Nähm mi dat maal nich
för ungood!

De WF farianten:

L. Saxon | German
vos (Foss)  |  Fuchs  'fox'

foks

los (Loss)  |  Luchs  'lynx'

(gjin eigen wurd, dêr't ik fan wit)

Sassen  |  Sachsen  'Saxons(-y)'

Saksen.

was (Wass)  |  Wachs  'wax'

waaks (mei rekking foar bylûdkloft, lykas fakentiids)

wassen  |  wachsen  (wax) 'grow'

waakse
(byg. yn "folwoeksen", Nederl. "volwassen".)

vlas (Flass)  |  Flachs  'flax'

flaaks.

büs (Büss)  |  Büchse  'box', 'pants'

boksen.
(allinninich foar it part dêr't de skonken yn geane, it geheel hjit fan
"broek")

Groetnis!

Henno Brandsma

----------

From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.12.06 (05) [E/LS]

> bÃ¼s (BÃ¼ss)  |  BÃ¼chse  'box', 'pants'
Dor heff ik mi al frÃ¶her mal Ã¶ver wunnert, Ã¶ver ene Saak: Du seggst
"Dutch: Sassen". FÃ¶r dat PlattdÃ¼Ã¼tsche stimmt dat, aver Nedderlandsch un
Nedersaksisch hebbt dor "Saksen". Dat passt also nich ganz to'n Rest.

Hett dor dat Latiensche rinspeelt? Oder wo kummt dat vun af?

Hebbt de Sassen op de nedderlandsche Siet vun'e Grenz wÃ¼rklich jemehr
egenen Naam ut en annere Spraak Ã¶vernahmen oder is de Ãœnnerscheed doch
dÃ¶r Luudgesetten to verkloren?

Marcus Buck

----------

From: R. F. Hahn < sassisch at yahoo.com> <sassisch at yahoo.com>Subject: Lexicon

Och, nee, nee! Daar heff ik 'n asigen Fehlter maakt. NÃ¤hm mi dat maal nich
fÃ¶r ungood!

Kumpelmenten,
Reinhard/Ron

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com >
Subject: Etymology

Moyen, Ings!

You seem to be right, by and large at least. *
*
*O.Engl  O.Frisian   O.Saxon  O.L.Franc.  O.German   O.Norse  Gothi**c*
*
fox  *???*  fuhs   fus  fuhs  * ---* faÅ«ho
*???*  *???*  lohs  *???*  luhs  *---* ** * ???
*seaxe  saxa  sahso  *???*  sahso  sax-  *???
*weax  wax   wahs  wahs  wahs   vax   *???
*weaxan   waxa  wahsan  wahsan   -wahsan  vexa  wahsjan *
*fleax  flax  flahs  *???*   flahs  *---*  *???
* box  *???*  *** ???*  *???*  buhsa   buÃ°kr  *???
However, we don't really know when the shift from /xs/ to /ks/ occurred in
the individual varieties, since spelling tends to lag behind.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

Ingmar, Markus, Reinhard and All:
Interesting that English retains a sound closer to German than fellow
Lowlands (e.g. we have fox, wax, flax etc., not something like "foss, wass,
flass") So the velar sound clearly faded out after the Anglo-Saxons and
their ilk left the mainland, and they lost any significant contact with the
"Old Country".

Paul

----------

From: Diederik Masure <didimasure at hotmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.12.06 (05) [E/LS]

>>However, we don't really know when the shift from /xs/ to /ks/ occurred in
the individual varieties, since spelling tends to lag behind.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Reinhard/Ron

Cfr. the Old Norse spelling <x> with probably actually was pronounced as
chs... Modern Icelandic 'officially' (?) still has x = chs, as we learned,
but the pronunciation with ks seems to be winning a lot of terrain lately.

Died
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