LL-L "Etymology" 2007.12.08 (05) [E/German]

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L O W L A N D S - L  -  08 December 2007 - Volume 05
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From: Joachim Kreimer-de Fries <Kreimer at jpberlin.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.12.07 (03) [E/German]

Bewerdiget Reinhard R. Hahn & all,

in the (certainly secondary) matter of "bissen" you wrote to-day:

> What is my point really? Snails are notoriously and proverbially
> slow; they creep, slide along ... When you say, "when snails run"
> meaning "never in a million years" (or "when pigs fly") you are
> referring to the opposite. Get it?  I don't for a second think that
> "to be in heat" enters the picture here.

I agree, this was my first assumtion, too, and you have me finally
convinced. Particularly because the other meaning of
"bissen" (copulation appetite) in the case of snails and the
proverbial use of it in "Süntnümmerdag" doesn't make much sense.

Ron furthermore:
> I still believe the basic (as well as original) meaning of bissen
> is 'to run', as is the case with the cognate birsen in the northern
> dialects of Low Saxon. ...
> I believe the writer of that entry may have jumped the gun in
> making the meaning of "to be in heat" (of cows) the overriding
> meaning, or that he worded the entry in such a way that one
> interprets it that way.

But the "writer of that entry" (Klöntrup) stood not alone. And the
Westphalian neither. In Lübben's middelsaxon Dictionary I found two
(!) different words:

1. "bersen (birsen), ..
pirschen" [to stalk - in chase], which seems to be - phonologically -
the root for Northern Saxonian "birsen"; (from that, btw, "birser"
could be a LS translation for the modern, psychopathologic and
forensic "stalker", and "Pirscher" the Standard German one, too)

2. "bissen, .. 1. wie toll hin-und herlaufen,
bes. vom Rindvieh, wenn es vom Bisselwurm (oestrus bovis) umschwärmt
und gestochen wird, oder in der Brunstzeit ist. 2. in Aufruhr
bringen, conturbare."
[1. run as crazu, esp. from cattle, when attacked by {some sort of}
vermins - Bisselworms - or in the mating season 2. to bring in
disturbance/brouhaha]

and also:
"bist,
Lockung? Erregung?" [allurement? enragement?] (the writer of the
entry in Lübben was uncertain)

Anyway, I find the word "bissen" phonemically so attractive that I
bemoan that there is no correspondent in Standard German, and in LS
only a reduced application. Given the impact of "busy" in modern
Anglo-Saxon and the shareholder value capitalism dominated world of
to-day it might be worth to find out the linguistic root of it. What
is the Old Saxon or Germanic word for "bissen"?

If it's "mating" connotation would be found out again, then it could
be a historic-linguistic support for the Freudian sublimation theory...

A little depends though of the question, what the meaning
"Bisselwurm" is (I did not find it in my dictionaries) and wether the
"bissen" really came from that or contrariwise that worm's name was
derivated from the effect it had on cattle.

I admid, this is all far out of the Sünteklaas conversation...

Goudgaon!

Joachim Kreimer-de Fries

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Estemeyrde vründ un mitstryder Joachim,

I admid, this is all far out of the Sünteklaas conversation...

Oh, but that's how the cookie usually crumbles in etymological pursuits.

1. "bersen (birsen), ..
pirschen" [to stalk - in chase], which seems to be - phonologically -
the root for Northern Saxonian "birsen"; (from that, btw, "birser"
could be a LS translation for the modern, psychopathologic and
forensic "stalker", and "Pirscher" the Standard German one, too)

2. "bissen, .. 1. wie toll hin-und herlaufen,
bes. vom Rindvieh, wenn es vom Bisselwurm (oestrus bovis) umschwärmt
und gestochen wird, oder in der Brunstzeit ist. 2. in Aufruhr
bringen, conturbare."
[1. run as crazu, esp. from cattle, when attacked by {some sort of}
vermins - Bisselworms - or in the mating season 2. to bring in
disturbance/brouhaha]

Aha! Brilliant! Thanks for clarifying this.

I have a feeling that *bess-* 'to run' is related to English "burst" and
German *bersten* 'to burst', 'to storm (in, away, etc.)'. Phonologically
this would make sense, since /-rst-/ tends to become *-ss-* in Modern (Low)
Saxon (e.g., OS *firston* > MS *Fasten ~ Fassen ~ **Festen ~ Fessen ~ **Fisten
~ Fissen* 'roof ridges' -- related to "first", German *First*). So **berston
* could have developed to **bessen* or **bassen*, though I have no proof of
that. Then again, we have *barsten* 'to burst' in Low Saxon ... But let's
file this one away for now, because it's out of the running. (No pun
intended.)

Finding a trace of a possible ancestor of *bissen* 'to run about', 'to be in
heat', proved to be difficult, since I could find no trace of it in extant
Old Saxon material. But then I had what I consider a breakthrough.

There is the hypothetical Germanic verb **bis-* (**bīs-*?) 'to rush about'.
Two descendants of it are known: Old German *bīsa* and Old Low Franconian *
bīsa*, both meaning 'whirlwind'. This can be connected with
Indo-European **eisā
~ *isā ~ *oisā *'rush (at)'. According to *moi*, the apparent prefix
**b-*may be related to Indo-European *
*bhi* 'around', 'about', thus **bhi-**eis- ~* **bhi-**is- ~ ***bhi-**ois- *'
*to rush about/around'. How brilliant is this speculation? ;-)

Furthermore, I wonder if the following Sanskrit word is related to this:
बिस- *bi**s-* (बिस्यति *bi**syati*) 'to move (about/onward)', 'to go
(about/onward)', 'to urge on', 'to incite'.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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