LL-L "Names" 2007.12.24 (04) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

L O W L A N D S - L  -  24 December 2007 - Volume 03
Song Contest: lowlands-l.net/contest/ (- 31 Dec. 2007)
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From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Names" 2007.12.23 (01) [E]

What we appear to have here, is the eternal problem of drawing lines in a
continuum.  Where does red become orange, or orange, yellow?

Here in the southern half of our island, we got cut adrift to some extent,
and developed a discrete language with no direct blurring with our
continental relatives.  We named ourselves, and the language, after a people
with little current status back in the homeland (imagine the confusion if
we'd decided on "Saxonish" rather than "English"!) . But one of the the
other mobs in the island also diverged on a continuum, and they decided to
name their version after a people who spoke no kind of Lowlands language at
all, not even a Germanic language.

Makes them Usurping Central German "Saxons" almost seem like part of the
family doesn't it?

Paul F-B

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Names

Yes, Paul, there *is *a continuum ... of sorts, for instance with respect to
historical phonology, as is the case in all language groups, or would be the
case if all members survived or were known otherwise.

However, I take issue with the traditional practice of grouping Germanic
languages only or primarily by phonological criteria, especially by the
presence or absence of sound shifts. This is overly simplified and ignores
important morphological and lexical features. Already Old ("High") German
and Old Saxon differed markedly in many regards. Greatly fortified by its
international role, Middle Saxon continued unencumbered in the Saxon
tradition. Late Middle and Early Modern German influences began with the end
of the Hanseatic League and the beginning of the Reformation. Yes, on the
German side of the border German influences continued, Dutch influences on
the Netherlands' side, but these have not altered the fundamental structure
of Low Saxon. There are still many clearly Saxon or at least Low German (i.e.
common Low Saxon and Low Franconian) words (e.g. *snaak *'snake',
*braam *'(Scotch)
broom') as well as Saxon morphosyntactic features (that seem "Anglesque" to
German speakers, e.g. *Daar het hey nu tyd voer* 'He has time *for* that/it
now', cf. German *Dafür hat er jetzt Zeit*).

But even in historical phonology there is a marked difference in that the
Low German varieties retain some Ingveonic features or alternatives (e.g. *us
~ uns ~ ons *'us', *vyv *'five' v German *uns* and *fünf*).

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

P.S.: We had the most amazing moon on the night of Winter Solstice here in
Santa Cruz, California.


Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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