LL-L "Language politics" 2007.07.06 (04) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L  -  06 July 2007 - Volume 04

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From: Mike Wintzer <k9mw at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Language politics" 2007.07.03 (05) [E]

Ron, you asked:

What do you mean by "patois"?  Surely you forgot the quotation marks.  I
take it you were referring to the Occitan language (a.k.a. Langue d'oc,
formerly often referred to as "Provençal," which is now a dialect group
within the language).

"Patois" is a French-language name for ALL (sic!) non-French languages, in
particular but not only, the regional languages spoken within the French
state borders. Quote from a traveller's report to one of the French overseas
(ex-)possessions: "...and a group of natives whispered in their patois..."
Occitan is an example *par excellence *of a "patois".
Kumpelmenten, Mike Wintzer

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com >
Subject: Language politics

Thanks for clarifying that, Mike.

Well, I consider it bad enough that such a distinction (and the attitude
behind it) exists in one language, even if you try to be kind and
compassionate and argue that langue means "native language" or "our
language" while patois means "foreign language."  But I strongly suggest
that we not transfer this to other languages, including English.  In English
you tend to hear it only from indiscriminate Francophiles, unless it's used
in a facetious way.

In older French, patois denoted "incomprehensible, vulgar gibberish," and I
believe that much of this meaning remains, implying French language
superiority and supremacy.

Personally I would be much happier with "language," "minority language" or
"regional language," and I believe that this is within the spirit of the
European Language Charter as well.  Furthermore, I am under the impression
that also many French speakers today (including those among us) would like
to get away from the attitude that hides behind that terminology.

As far as I am concerned, Occitan is not a patois, irrespective what people
in France may call it.  It certainly isn't a patois when we use English.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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