LL-L "Etymology" 2007.07.08 (03) [E/LS]

[Lowlands-L List]

L O W L A N D S - L  -  08 July 2007 - Volume 03

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From: jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L 'Etymology'

Beste Lowlanners, Nedersaksen, Neddersassen un Ron,

just a good 10 minutes ago I learned a new word  out of the store of our
regional Low Saxon: *'winsch'*. I heard it as an adverb in combination with
*'kieken'* *('sey keyk all heyl winsch'),* and the meaning is something like
G: 'irre', 'wahnsinnig', 'verwirrt', in LS close to 'unklouk', E: 'mad',
'insane'.

Could it be a special variety of LS 'füünsch', denoting something similar?
If yes- where is 'füünsch' deriving from? Of French origin perhaps?

Allerbest!

Jonny Meibohm

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From: "M.-L. Lessing" <marless at gmx.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.07.08 (01) [E/LS]

 Leve Jonny,

Klintworth, Klindworth, ja, dat kenn ik ok! (Wi wüllt hier keen Produktnaams
seggen, nich? ;-)) Dat is en gode Henwies. En Klintwort kunn denn je meist
en steile Wurt, Worth, Warft ween, nich?

Du schriffst:
 Hier stoyrt mii dat Wourd *'nerrn'.* Ick kenn 't man blouts as G:* 'unter',
* un doar seggt DWDS tou:
[unter*]**mit Dat.*; *bezeichnet im Verhältnis zu einem Bezugspunkt eine
vertikal tiefere Lage/ im* (*senkrechten*) *Abstand unterhalb von etw.
gelegen*:
[unter*]**mit Akk.*; *bezeichnet die Richtung auf eine im Verhältnis zu
einem Bezugspunkt tiefer gelegene Stelle/ im* (*senkrechten*) *Abstand zu
etw. Darüberliegendem*:

Also: *'ick stell de Foyt nerrn Disch'*  magst' woll driist seggen, man
nich' *'hey wüss oppletz' ne meyhr, woneem boaben un nerrn weyr'*,
denn is *''boaben
un' ünnen'*  beter  (ouk, wenn 't meyhr no Houghdüütsch uut-sücht ;-)).

Dat finn ik intressant. Ik heff dat jüst so in de Wies lehrt, as de nds.
Wiki dat ok brukt. Man dat kann ja verkehrt ween. Rasterhaftig süht dat in
min Kopp so ut:

HD    PD
unten    nerrn
unter    ünner
hinunter    (hen)dal

Wenn also wat "unten liegt", denn "liggt dat nerrn". Do ik wat "unter den
Tisch", denn do ik dat "ünner den Disch". In Din Bispillsätz wöör ik dat
jüstemang annersrüm maken! Is dat nu verkehrt? Ik söch na Bispelen. Hier in
de Nehgde gifft't en Dörp *Negernbötel*. Dat liggt ok so'n beten in en
sieden, natten Grund. Kunn dat "Unteres Büttel" heten? Orr is *Negern-* hier
ehrder "Neuen-"? Is dat villicht regionaal ünnerscheedlich?

Wiss is: Wenn een in HD seggt "Ich drücke es nieder" orr "Es fällt nieder",
denn is dat in PD *hendal*. Orr doch nich?

Ik bün nieschierig op Din Menen.

Hartlich!

Marlou

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From: "M.-L. Lessing" <marless at gmx.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.07.08 (01) [E/LS]

Dear Paul and Heather,

you wrote:

In Northern England, in limestone country, the limestone disolves out along
joints creating a blocky terrain with upstanding blocks separated by narrow
gullies, a bit like egg boxes or choclate blocks.  The blocks are anything
from a half a metre to several metres.  The upstanding blocks are called
"clints" and the gullies between are called "grikes".

Paul Finlow-Bates

The Oxford Dictionary of English Place Names has
Clint  from Yorkshire   O Swedish klinter   Danish klint   ONorse klettr 'a
hill'

also possibly  Clinch  Clench The place is near a hill and very likely
Clinch is really the name of the hill related to English clench/clunch 'a
lump' Possibly a related element is found in 'Clinca ledge 941 AD    on
Clincan ledge 934 AD

Hope this helps
Heather
Well, it is like the famous Domino day: touching one word makes the next one
fall, and the next... a series of enlightenment! If the chain from Clint to
clench/clinch to Clinca holds, then we are in Hamburg again, among the
famous Klinker buildings, made from a special hard brick, which may have
been a "lump", a "clunch" in its beginning! And these buildings are often
bold and high, quasi artificial *Klints* :-) But wait, german Wikipedia
tells me:

*"Klinker* sind Ziegelsteine <http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ziegel>, die
unter so hohen Temperaturen gebrannt sind, dass durch den beginnenden
Sinterprozess <http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sintern> die Poren des
Brenngutes geschlossen werden. Klinker nehmen kaum Wasser auf und sind sehr
widerstandsfähig. Der Name rührt daher, dass sie beim Zerschlagen einen
hellen Klang haben."
The last sentence translates: "The origin of the name ("Klinker") is the
bright sound they give when broken." Well, if they knew...! They are
mistaken then, aren't they? Orr *does* "Klinker" come from "klingen" (german
"to sound")? Who can tell us? And how many Domino stones are still to fall?
Orr will we try brick stones instead? :-)

Thanks & Greetings,

Marlou

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From: wim <wkv at home.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.07.08 (01) [E/LS]

From Wim wkv at home.nl Netherands Zwolle

Hi

The word Klinge, that s a knife edge in German, might that be connected too?
Klinge is also an old word for hill in Dutch.

Just a thought , and there is of cause klip and klif. ( Dutch).

Wim

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
 Subject: Etymology

Marlou,

The noun Klinker is a Dutch loan (klinkert, klinker) for a type of brick
whose firing at particularly high heat was imported from the Netherlands. It
is based on the Dutch verb klink- (klinken) 'to sound' (German kling-,
Eastern Central German klink-), probably because these types of hard bricks
produce a ringing sound when hit. My feeling is that this has nothing to do
with Klint.  However, Wim seems to be on the right track with German
Klinge'(kife's/sword's) blade', as it has been recognized as related
to
kling-, as has been Klinke 'door handle', 'catch'. So Klingen and Klinke are
really cognate nouns derived from different language varieties.

As for the theory that Klint may be a Jutish loan in Low Saxon, sure, you
could look at its geographical distribution in place names and dialects in
comparison with the Jutish cattle treks.  However, I'm not sure how reliable
that would be, as loanwords, once absorbed and nativized, have a way of
being passed on to other language varieties, and not necessarily in the same
pattern as the historical event on which you focus.

Oh, and it is all right to mention product names here as long as that
doesn't amount to advertising.

Jonny, I haven't come across winsch before. I wonder if it is derived from
Old Saxon win 'trouble', 'strive', 'fight', alternatively from wend- (
wendian) 'to turn (around)', 'to spin', related to wendi 'boundary',
'border' (at which you turn around; cf. German Wenden, Wende).

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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