LL-L "Etymology" 2007.07.08 (05) [E/LS]

[Lowlands-L List]

L O W L A N D S - L  -  08 July 2007 - Volume 05

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From: jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.07.08 (03) [E/LS]

Marlou,

Du schreyvst:

>  Hier in de Nehgde gifft't en Dörp *Negernbötel*. Dat liggt ok so'n beten
in en sieden, natten Grund.
> Kunn dat "Unteres Büttel" heten? Orr is *Negern-* hier ehrder "Neuen-"? Is
dat villicht regionaal ünnerscheedlich?

*'Negernbötel' *, dücht mii, hett wat mit *'de Neyght'* ('Nähe') tou douhn,
man- kann woll ouk 'Ney' (='neu') ween. Wii hebbt hier Dörpen, woneem dat *
'Nedder-'* binnen is, jümmer kenntlich as *'Nedder-'* edders 'Nieder-':
'Niederstrich' is LS 'Neddernstreek' un waard uut-sprooken as
'Ne_ww_ern-Streek'.

Man- regionaale Ünnerscheyden sünd jümmers foyr 'n Verraschen goud!

Allerbest!

Jonny Meibohm

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From: jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.07.08 (03) [E/LS]

 Beste Ron,

Du schreyvst:


> Jonny, I haven't come across winsch before. I wonder if it is derived from
Old Saxon win 'trouble', 'strive', 'fight', alternatively from wend-
*> *(wendian) 'to turn (around)', 'to spin', related to wendi 'boundary',
'border' (at which you turn around; cf. German Wenden, Wende).

Great! That really sounds interesting and could show the direction. I'll
keep a further eye on it. In special the *'trouble' *-meaning could open new
gates...
Let's wait and see if any Dutchman is flying across it ;-).

Allerbest!

Jonny Meibohm

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From: Soenke Dibbern <s_dibbern at web.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.07.08 (03) [E/LS]

> From: jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
> Subject: LL-L 'Etymology'
>
> Beste Lowlanners, Nedersaksen, Neddersassen un Ron,
>
> just a good 10 minutes ago I learned a new word  out of the store of our
> regional Low Saxon: *'winsch'*. I heard it as an adverb in combination
> with
> *'kieken'* *('sey keyk all heyl winsch'),*Could it be a special variety
> of LS 'füünsch', denoting something similar?
> If yes- where is 'füünsch' deriving from? Of French origin perhaps?
>
> Allerbest!
>
> Jonny Meibohm
>
> ---------
> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>Subject: Etymology
>
> Jonny, I haven't come across winsch before. I wonder if it is derived
> from
> Old Saxon win 'trouble', 'strive', 'fight', alternatively from wend- (
> wendian) 'to turn (around)', 'to spin', related to wendi 'boundary',
> 'border' (at which you turn around; cf. German Wenden, Wende).
>
> Regards,
> Reinhard/Ron

I know and use two meanings of 'winsch':
1. 'Winsch', noun (f.), E:'winch' (LEO), denotes a special kind of crank
used for hauling sheets on sailing boats
2. 'winsch', adj., G: 'verdreht', E: 'distorted, twisted', fx. said of a
wooden bar which doesn't form a plane. ("Dat Brett is winsch, dat kannst
dor ni för bruken!")
So it seems the word belongs to G:'wenden', E:'to turn, spin'.
Both words are also used in Standard German speaking environments, at
least in Slesvig-Holsten. I've not heard the word being used as an adverb
yet ('winsch kieken'), but it's nice, I'll adopt it.

> ---------
>
> From: "M.-L. Lessing" <marless at gmx.de>
> Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.07.08 (01) [E/LS]
>
> Du schriffst:
>> Hier stoyrt mii dat Wourd *'nerrn'.* Ick kenn 't man blouts as G:*
>> 'unter',
>
> Dat finn ik intressant. Ik heff dat jüst so in de Wies lehrt, as de nds.
> Wiki dat ok brukt. Man dat kann ja verkehrt ween. Rasterhaftig süht dat
> in
> min Kopp so ut:
>
> HD    PD
> unten    nerrn
> unter    ünner
> hinunter    (hen)dal
>
> Wenn also wat "unten liegt", denn "liggt dat nerrn". Do ik wat "unter den
> Tisch", denn do ik dat "ünner den Disch". In Din Bispillsätz wöör ik dat
> jüstemang annersrüm maken! Is dat nu verkehrt? Ik söch na Bispelen.
Dat's jo drullig, ik bruuk 'nerrn' för't ene un för't annere. Na mien
Begriepen sünd
"Dat regent mi to dull, laat us man jüst röver nerrn den Boom gahn" un ok
"De Annern staht ok al nerrn den Boom" richtige Sätz.

> Hier in
> de Nehgde gifft't en Dörp *Negernbötel*. Dat liggt ok so'n beten in en
> sieden, natten Grund. Kunn dat "Unteres Büttel" heten? Orr is *Negern-*
> hier
> ehrder "Neuen-"? Is dat villicht regionaal ünnerscheedlich?
>
Dat Dörp bi Seegbarg kenn ik ok, ik heff dat jümmers as 'Niege(r)nbüttel'
leest. Man op www.negernboetel.de steiht, de Naam heet 'dat negere Bötel'
in Verscheel to 'Fehrenbötel', wat 'dat feern Bötel' bedüüdt, keken vun
Seegbarg ut.

Sodennig,
Sönke

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Ah, Sönke, it looks like you delivered the missing link!  I do know the noun
Winsch 'windlass' and thought of it but didn't make the connection.  So I
don't get credit.  So the adjective/adverb winsch seems to be semantically
related with verdrayd (verdreiht) "turned/spun the wrong way" = "crazy".

Kumpelmenten in't Huus!

Reinhard/Ron
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