LL-L "Traditions" 2007.06.04 (05) [A/D/E]

[Lowlands-L List]

L O W L A N D S - L  -  04 June 2007 - Volume 05

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From: Elsie Zinsser  <ezinsser at icon.co.za>
Subject: LL-L "History" 2007.06.04 (01) [D/E]

Hi all,

Ja, Marcel en Mark, ons het ook gewoon die vet bruin "besie" (cockchafers)
wat roos-, appel- en peerblare vervreet, en die benaming kom wel van die
Nederlandse 'beestje' soos in 'diertje' (bug).

Groete,

Elsie Zinsser

But we also see that many languages refer to cattle. Now I wonder if the
Afrikaans use of '-besie' in *sonbesie *is indeed a variety of the Dutch
word *beestje *, which means 'little animal, little insect/bug', or if
Afrikaans '-besie' refers to a cow (in Afrikaans *bees*).

In Dutch 'beestjes' is commonly used for any small insect or bug. "Er zitten
beestjes op mijn t-shirt", or "Als ik te veel gedronken heb zie ik allemaal
beestjes" (!).
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From: Henno Brandsma < hennobrandsma at hetnet.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Traditions" 2007.06.03 (06) [E]

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com >
Subject: Traditions

Thanks, Lee.  I agree with all you said. Sometimes there appear to be
different source languages, such as in the case of the Hebrew word for
"wren".

As for ladybugs, there are definite themes going on throughout Europe:

Reference to non-Christian female deities:
 Old Norse: *freyjuhaena*

Reference to Mary:
Calabrese: gaddrinèddra d'à Madònna
Castilian: mariquita
Catalan: marieta
Danish: mariehøne
Dutch: Lieveheersbeestje

This does not belong in the reference to Mary category, but in the
references to God section.
"(onze) lieve heer" stands for God. It's a more catholic turn of phrase,
protestants tend to say/write "de Heere".
(archaic form from the Staten-translation from the 17th century)

English: ladybird, ladybug
German, Modern: Marienkäfer
German, Middle: *Marienvoglein *
Icelandic: maríuhæna
Low Saxon: Mariek
Norwegian, Dano-: mariehøne

Reference to God:
Breton: buoc'hig-Doue
Irish: bóín Dé
Low Saxon: Herrgottskoh
Nissart (Nice Provençal): galineta dòu bouòn Diéu
Russian: Божья коровка

Reference to chickens:
Danish: mariehøne
Icelandic: maríuhæna
Nissart (Nice Provençal): galineta dòu bouòn Diéu
Norwegian, Dano-: mariehøne
Old Norse: f*reyjuhaena
*Low Saxon: Sünn(e(n))küken
Welsh: b uwch goch gota

Reference to birds generally:
English: ladybird
German, Middle: *Marienvoglein*

Reference to cattle:
Dutch: Lieveheersbeestje

Not cattle. but just "little animal" literally, but often used for insects
in general.

West Frisian is "ingeltsje" (little angel), which is also a religious
reference.

Henno Brandsma

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From: Diederik Masure <didimasure at hotmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Traditions" 2007.06.03 (06) [E]

I'm a bit late in this duscussion, but would anyone know the/a
Antw./southwest brabant term for the ladybug? I can't remember any from my
childhood, but I'm sure it is not St. D. lieveheersbeestje. I hear sometimes
the word 'lievebeersgeestje' among some friends but that's quite probably a
(humouristic) new formation, no google hits and the few people I know that
use it are all friends...
gr
died

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From: Diederik Masure <didimasure at hotmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Traditions" 2007.06.03 (06) [E]

Thanks to Google I found back the word I was looking for, 'hemelbeestje'
(heaven's bug); the forum I found it at lists it as 'West Vlaams" so I am
not sure it is the 'real' dialect word either, but at least it's the one
that was common in cultivated antwerp speech some 10-15 years ago - I
haven't heard it in use though, lately.

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From: Diederik Masure <didimasure at hotmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Traditions" 2007.06.03 (06) [E]

Sorry voor de grote spam aan opeenvolgende berichten,
Kijk ook eens http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lieveheersbeestjes#Etymologie with
a lot of other names (supposedly marienkaefer/ladybug etc are due to an
older dedication to Freya [says wiki])

Ook opvallend bij Limburgs = mulderinnetje, aangezien mulder ea. frequente
dialectwoorden voor de meikever zijn...

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From: Elsie Zinsser  <ezinsser at icon.co.za>
Subject: LL-L "History

Haai almal,

O, terloops, Marcel, 'n 'bees' (ox) is die algemene benaming
(beesras/beestipe/beesvleis),
terwyl koei (cow) die vroulike dier is, en bul (bull) die manlike dier.

Ek sien daar is beskrywings wat 'biltong' verkeerdelik aandui as sou die
'bil' in biltong van
' bul' ontstaan, terwyl 'bil' in werklikheid 'lang dun reep' (vleis in dié
geval) beteken.

Elsie Zinsser
...[ or if Afrikaans '-besie' refers to a cow (in Afrikaans *bees*).]
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