LL-L "Etymology" 2007.06.22 (02) [E/LS/German]

[Lowlands-L List]

L O W L A N D S - L  -  21 June 2007 - Volume 02

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From: "list at marcusbuck.org" <list at marcusbuck.org>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.06.21 (01) [E/German]

Like Marcel Bas said:
> In place names we are often dealing with -ing: 'people'. Cf.
> Groningen, Wagening(en), Texing,  etc. Cf. tweeling - with added '
> l': 'twins';  koning (= king), etc. But you examples of 'ding' could
> very well refer to a thing as a gathering or a people's court.

Stedingen cames from stathu like in 'Gestade', the same word is the
root of 'Stade/Stood'. So Stedingen is 'the land of the people on the
coast'. Butjadingen is the 'land of the people on the outer side of
the Jade'. I don't know Kadingen (or is it Kehdingen?), but I guess,
it is the same.

I think, Dingwörden is a better example of a place name with the word
'ding'. It is the Wurt (English has no own word for it? Wikipedia
calls it 'Artificial dwelling hill'), where the thing place were,
where the regular thing meetings were held. In this meaning 'ding'
does occur in place names, but I don't think, there are place names
with 'ding' meaning 'judicial district'.

Marcus Buck

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From: jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.06.21 (02) [E]

Beste Luc and Marcel,

Dank foyr Jouw'n Anters tou *'thing'*! *"Nicht verzagen, Nachbarn fragen
;-)!"*

Luc:

> Don't wanna burst your bubble...but...you could be on
> "ing(en)"-territory now.

You don't burst a bubble, I think. Though you cut the relationship to *
'thing'* we still stay in the same basic meaning! Isn't a territory, in the
farest sense, a kind of *administration unit* (as I suggested) as well? It
even fits better into my construction- perhaps you're just on any older
path, deeper in the ancient background of the *'thing'*-family.

Have a look at Marcel's:

> In place names we are often dealing with *-ing*:* *'people'.

Isn't it close to DUDEN: *'...die Versammlung der freien Männer...'*?

Allerbest!

Jonny Meibohm

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Marcus, you wrote:

> It is the Wurt (English has no own word for it? Wikipedia calls it
'Artificial dwelling hill')

So far I haven't been able to find a connection, though I would expect there
to be one.

Even though apparently not related (or is it?), it reminds me of
worth'fenced land', 'enclosure', 'settlement', 'homestead' < Old
English
worþ, Old Saxon worð > Middle Saxon wurd, word.

What is very interesting about this one is that it appears to be limited to
Saxon and to be a direct link not only between British and Continental Saxon
place names but specifically between British place names and place names of
the Elbe Estuary area (our Jonny's native stomping ground from which most
Saxons departed for Britain, about which he will report in his upcoming
Travel contribution).  Furthermore, it's remarkable that in the said
continental area in such place names this part still tends to be spelled
-worth.

English examples:

Duckworth Hall
Farnworth
Holsworthy
Shadsworth
Tamworth
Tottleworth

Elbe Estuary examples:

Dörringworth (Low Saxon Dellnwort)
Ihlienworth (Low Saxon Helmworth)
Lüdingworth (Low Saxon *de Worth* "The Worth")
Pedingworth (Low Saxon Pemworth ~ Jerusalem)

According to Wikipedia, the following are Saxon elements in English place
names:

Bourne, burn, delph – a stream
Burg – a large village
Coombe – a valley
Croft, worthy – a small enclosure
Don, den – hill
Eg, ey, ea, eig – an island
Ham – a village
Hurst, ley, lea, riding – a clearing
Ing – people
Ling, lyng – hill
Mere – a pool
Moss – a swamp
Stoc – a summer pasture
Stoke – a secondary settlement
Stow – a holy place
Stowey, stanway – stone way, paved road (usually Roman)
Ton, tun, wic, wike – a house, farm or group of huts
Weald – high woodland
Worth, worthy – fenced or enclosed area

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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