LL-L "Etymology" 2007.06.22 (07) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L  -  22 June 2007 - Volume 07

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From: Soenke Dibbern <s_dibbern at web.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology"

Fr., den 22. Jun.'07, hett Marcus Buck <list at marcusbuck.org> dit schreven:
> I think, Dingwörden is a better example of a place name with the word
> 'ding'. It is the Wurt (English has no own word for it? Wikipedia
> calls it 'Artificial dwelling hill'), [...]

Fr., den 22. Jun.'07, hett R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com> dit schreven:
> Marcus, you wrote:
>
>> It is the Wurt (English has no own word for it? Wikipedia calls it
> 'Artificial dwelling hill')
>
> So far I haven't been able to find a connection, though I would expect
> there to be one.
>
> Even though apparently not related (or is it?), it reminds me of
> worth'fenced land', 'enclosure', 'settlement', 'homestead' < Old
> English worþ, Old Saxon worð > Middle Saxon wurd, word.

Why don't you see a connection here? An Old Saxon 'worð', LS 'Wurth' (as
in e.g. Busenwurth, Poppenwurth, Schmedeswurth, all in Dithmarschen) was a
man-made hill to guard cattle and later whole houses against storm tides,
thus fitting very well with 'fenced (=protected) land', 'settlement'.
After a period of rising water levels, which required continuous
heightenings of the 'Wurthen' (Middle Saxon probably
'worden/wörden/wurden'), those with only small distances in between grew
together to a village-wide Wurth, but maintained the plural in the name:
'Wörden' (as in mentioned Dingwörden, or in Wöhrden, Epenwöhrden,
Bergewöhrden in Dithmarschen) [cf. http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wurth].

> What is very interesting about this one is that it appears to be limited
> to Saxon and to be a direct link not only between British and
> Continental Saxon place names but specifically between British place
> names and place names of
> the Elbe Estuary area (our Jonny's native stomping ground from which most
> Saxons departed for Britain, about which he will report in his upcoming
> Travel contribution).  Furthermore, it's remarkable that in the said
> continental area in such place names this part still tends to be spelled
> -worth.
>
> English examples:
>
> Duckworth Hall
> Farnworth
> Holsworthy
> Shadsworth
> Tamworth
> Tottleworth
>
> Elbe Estuary examples:
>
> Dörringworth (Low Saxon Dellnwort)
> Ihlienworth (Low Saxon Helmworth)
> Lüdingworth (Low Saxon *de Worth* "The Worth")
> Pedingworth (Low Saxon Pemworth ~ Jerusalem)

I would like to add here some examples from the opposite side of the Elbe
river (from Dithmarschen):
Poppenwurth
Busenwurth
Schmedeswurth
Ammerswurth
Österwurth
Wittenwurth
Trennewurth

The local LS pronounciation of the 'wurth' part is something I would
transcribe for english readers as 'vouort'.

> According to Wikipedia, the following are Saxon elements in English place
> names:
>
> Bourne, burn, delph – a stream
I know some streets called 'Am Delfen', 'Delfenweg' and similar - could
this be the same as this 'delph' you mention?

> [...]
> Don, den – hill
In Dithmarschen, there are a couple of village names ending in 'donn' like
'St. Michaelisdonn', 'Hochdonn', 'Dingerdonn'. These villages are all
situated at the steep edge between the marshlands and the Geest (slightly
hilly and sandy terrain). So the 'donn' part would probably be the same
word as this English 'don/den', wouldn't it? Johnny, are there in
Kehdingen and around similar names?

Regards,
Sönke

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com >
Subject: Etymology

Thanks, Sönke.

Oh, I can see the connection all right!  But what I meant was that I did not
find any connection mentioned in any of the sources I consulted.

> > [...]
> Don, den – hill
In Dithmarschen, there are a couple of village names ending in 'donn' like
'St. Michaelisdonn', 'Hochdonn', 'Dingerdonn'.

What I find most fascinating about this word is that it looks suspiciously
related to Celtic *dun (Gaelic dun, Welsh din) 'hill fortress', 'hill'.

But again I don't find any such connection being made in the resources I
consulted.

(I wonder if there's a connection with the Brahmins of Bremen. But, darn, we
may never know, since John signed off once again!)

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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