LL-L "Etymology" 2007.06.25 (04) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

L O W L A N D S - L  -  24 June 2007 - Volume 04

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From: Luc Hellinckx <luc.hellinckx at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology"

Dear Elsie (and Reuben),


You wrote:

> From: Reuben Epp  <reuben at uniserve.com <mailto:reuben at uniserve.com>>
> Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.06.24 (03) [E]
>
> From: Elsie Zinsser < ezinsser at icon.co.za <mailto:ezinsser at icon.co.za>>
> Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.06.23 (07) [E]
>
> Hi all,
> It has puzzled me too why, in Mennonite Plautdietsch, the devil would be
> called "jäl Tän".

This is really interesting, as it opens new perspectives.

See, Middle Saxon had "gêl-oge", (geel-oog in Dutch) for the devil. I
can't tell you why old nick is considered to have yellow eyes (?
cat-like ?), but in color symbolism, "yellow" predominantly has negative
connotations (treachery, jealousy), so that could play a role.

Especially after Jonny's latest remark, I have come to think that "geel
snacken", rather stands for "talking loud", maybe slightly comparable to
how "some" American speech is valued by non-Americans. On a more local
scale, this is often said of the Antwerp dialect too, being pretty
brash, in the ears of southerners that is ;-)  . So, here "geel" may
stand for "brash", "posh", "distinctive". Yellow is after all a color
that stands out brazenly against a dark ( and rural) background (cf. all
the different lions in heraldry).

Back to "geel-oog".
Many a Southern Dutch dialect has the verb "geel-ogen". The meaning can
vary somewhat, ranging from looking like a hollow-eyed zombie to making
grimaces with glaring eyes (cf. "The Wren").  Western dialects usually
have something like "glaar-ogen" (note ~ "to glare" (E)), Eastern ones
are more along the lines of "gèèl-ogen" (maybe ~ "geer-ogen": eyes that
show (be)geer(te), "Gier", "Begierde" (G), ~ "to yearn"), "l" and "r"
are  quite often interchangeable. I have a hunch that two different
verbs have come into play here and have mutually influenced each other
("glèèr-ogen": wild look + "geer-ogen": dull look = "geel-ogen").

So maybe "geel snacken" is the final result of two (or more) different
words that have intermingled?

By the way, "jealousy" is usually associated with "green" in Brabantish:
"a zie(t) grüün va zjaloezie", "he's deadly jealous". But then again,
"yellow" has cognates in other languages that mean "green"; which is
only natural, given the fact that "gall" is related, whose color is
halfway between green and yellow.

Kind greetings,

Luc Hellinckx

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Interesting, Luc, also that you mention "jealousy" and zjaloezie.

"Jealous" is related to "zeal" < Latin sēlus < Greek ζη̑λος zēlos.
Portuguese and Italian write the word for "jealous" geloso. I wonder if some
sort of "mix-up" with words for "yellow" occurred at some point in time.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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From: Global Moose Translations <globalmoose at t-online.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.06.24 (06) [E]

Reinhard wrote:
>It's sure good to hear from you. I've been wondering how you've been doing.

Well... life has been very exhausting in many respects, and I seem to have
come to a crossroads, as often before (this time professionally). I've also
been quite depressed about the death of my sweet old German Shepherd dog
(probably the last one I'll ever have). And my health has been worse, but
it's also been a lot better. So I've been rather self-absorbed lately, I
admit. Also, my feelings about the modern use of Lower Saxon are rather
ambivalent, as you know, and I'm still trying to figure out exactly where I
stand on certain issues, so I prefer not to take part in such discussions at
the moment. It's different when you're once again in the middle of it, as I
have been for the past two years.

Let me just state for now that the older people in my village really like me
for understanding Platt (I still don't speak it much around them because I
keep switching to Dutch - and when I tried anyway someone thought I hailed
from East Frisia!)), and that they automatically switch to Platt when they
start gossiping about their absent peers. But I have mixed feelings about
this because their Platt sounds rather watered-down to me, it's not what I
heard when I grew up not far from here. Maybe those 20 km do made a big
difference, but I haven't had a chance so far to hear the Sollinger Platt of
my native village again (provided there are any "true" speakers left).

> What do you think about my hypothesis of "yellow" = "envious (of the posh
German speakers,
>hence trying to be like them)"?

To tell you the truth, I don't quite see the connection. And I haven't been
following the discussions very closely lately. But I have always wondered
why it is that "yellow" means "cowardly" in English. I must admit that I
assumed it had to do with a coward's underwear (enough said).

Gabriele Kahn
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