LL-L "Idiomatica" 2007.03.04 (01) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 04 March 2007 - Volume 01

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From: Theo Homan <theohoman at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2007.03.03 (03) [E]

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Idiomatica

[...]

> While most European languages now distinguish "bell"
> and "clock," Low Saxon
> and Icelandic (and Faeroese?) belong to the modern
> ones that use the same
> word in all contexts:
[...]

In Icelandic in all contexts?
Who told you so?

vr.gr.
Theo Homan

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From: "heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk" <heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2007.03.03 (03) [E]

Ron wrote

Old English: belle ~ clucge
Old Frisian: klokke
Old Saxon: ?
Old L. Frank.: ?
Old German: glokka ~ scella ~ skilla
Old Norse: bjalla ~ klokka
Gothic: skilla

How can there have been a word for something that didn't exist ?

Clocks were not invented until .... 13th / 14th century.

So it's hard to see how these early languages would have had a word for one.

My understanding was that the word for a celtic bell i.e. one made by folded
iron to give the traditional shape of a Swiss cow bell ( rather than a round
bell by casting) was loaned from the Irish word for cloak because the
outline shape of the bell looked like a man in a long cloak.

The Romans also pinched the word and the item (cloak)

When the Irish missionaries went to Germany they took their Celtic Christian
language with them including 'clocca' = bell; this became German 'Glocke'.

When clocks were invented in Germany they were called Glockenuhr  because a
bell struck the hour.

The item was exported to the English, who promptly shortened this long word
and dubbed the new invention a 'clock'.

Welsh and Irish then brorrowed both item and word 'cloc'

So what started as an Irish cloak came back in the guise of a clock Welsh
'cloc' ( Sorry not sure what the Irish is)

One of my favourite language stories !

Heather

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Idiomatica

Theo:

> In Icelandic in all contexts?
> Who told you so?
A number of sources I consulted.  But I'm more than willing to stand
corrected and learn otherwise.

Heather:

> How can there have been a word for something that didn't exist ?

> Clocks were not invented until .... 13th / 14th century.
The red items all denote "bell," not clock.

Skilla became Modern German Schelle, a smaller type of bell (cymbal?).

Interesting, the historical aspects you presented!

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

•

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