LL-L "Etymology" 2007.03.06 (06) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

L O W L A N D S - L - 06 March 2007 - Volume 06

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From: Marcel Bas <roepstem at hotmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.03.06 (05) [E]

Hello, everyone!

Reinhard wrote:

>Whether or not that etymology is correct I do not know.  However, Arthur,
what you told us tallies with Old Saxon ... sort of ...:

>skat (~ skatt) : coin, money, treasure, estate >

>fehuskat : ("livestock ...") coin, money
>hôvidskat : ("head ...") polltax
>mundskat : ("mouth ...") protection
>siluvarskat : ("silver ...") silver coin
weroldskat : ("world ...") worldly goods
>winskat : ("wine ...") wine tax

>However ... nota benissime ...

>skot : tax

>Derived from Old English scot, "scot" (~ "shot" < sceot ) in this sense is
still officially an English word, albeit a rather archaic one; e.g., ...`

This should remind Russian speakers of Russian *skat*: cattle.
Obviously, this must be a Germanic loanword, demonstrating the importance of
beasts as a financial element of European societies. Just think of analogies
between Latin ´pecu´ which meant both cattle and money, and Old English
´feoh´ wich meant the same.

Could Russian *skat *be an Old Norse loanword? It would be remarkable,
because cattle is as old as prehistoric ages, so why would these Slavs need
a loanword for that?

Best regards,

Marcel.

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From: Marcel Bas <roepstem at hotmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.03.06 (05) [E]

I made a mistake there: I wrote *skat *but I meant *skot*, for 'cattle' in
Russian. *skat* is a ray, the fish that is related to the shark and other
cartiledge fish species.

Best regards,

Marcel.
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From: R.F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com >
Subject: Etymology

Great point, Marcel!

I should have added that Old Norse has skot 'tribute'.  Were it not for
this, I would have suspected that Russian скот came from Middle Saxon schot;
but then again that should have resulted in *схот. (Scandinavian, on the
other hand, did change Middle Saxon sch... to sk..., due to phonological
restraints, while Russian can render both /š/ and /sx/, namely as ш
and схrespectively).

If Russian borrowed Old Norse skot as 'tribute', it would be strange to have
it mean 'livestock', wouldn't it.  So perhaps Old Swedish used it as
"livestock" as well, or Russian shifted the meaning.  Apparently,
'livestock' is not skot in Old Norse.

And here's another point: Old Norse has skatr 'treasure', 'tax', vs
fē'livestock'.

Modern Icelandic has skattur 'tax', 'levy' -- vs fé 'livestock'.

And the latter is not only related to German Vieh 'livestock' but also to
English fee.  And we all know that livestock was currency in them thar days
o'  yore.

And the following might need to be taken with a grain of salt or two ...

According to ATF, the Scots (the inhabitants of Scotland) are the same as
the Scythians; as he explains to us, the argument that confirms this is that
the Scythians bred skot (`cattle' in Russian) [NC 2:252].

 A A Zaliznyak, 'Linguistics according to A. T. Fomenko',
Uspekhi Mat. Nauk 55:2 162-188, 2000

Hmmm ...

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

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From: "heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk" <heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2007.03.05 (07) [E]

Sandy writes:  Oh yes, the phrase "scart-free" used by at least one Scottish
writer has
been discussed on the list before. Does "scot-free" really come from the
Scots for "without a scratch", or is it from the French "escot"?

The OED says

scot = payment contribution   scot and lot = taxes levied by a municipal
corporation in proportionate shares upon its members.

ON skot  OE scot(shot)  OF escot         of German origin

scot free has alternative shot-free

Heather
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