LL-L "Etymology" 2007.03.07 (02) [A/E]

[Lowlands-L List]

L O W L A N D S - L - 07 March 2007 - Volume 02

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From: Arthur Jones <arthurobin2002 at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.03.07 (01) [A/D/E]

Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.03.07 (02) [D/E/Go]

Heather Rendall wrote:

<From: "heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk " <heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk
<Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2007.03.05 (01) [E]
Arthur Jones writes:
"Unfortunately, samey-thingy with our Heather's story about clock/bell.
Sorry, Heather. Would that you were right. "
Perhaps you might like to check in the OED and Partridges Origins and also
Eggers Sprachgeschichte on early loan words from Irish into German.
I don't sit here and make them up!
Heather

Hi Heather, and it was not aimed at the Celtic to Germanic transfer! The era
was full of trade-offs flying in both directions. See, e.g., Peter H. Green,
Language and Culture in Ancient Germanic Civilizations, separate chapters
discussing mutual loans from and into Celtic, Germanic, Slavice, Romance.

I was referring solely to the assumed recent development of timekeeping
equipment. Goes back a lot further than many believe, as did the etymologies
involved. Yes, the Celts had words for cloak, bell, etc., ---as their other
Indo-European cousins had words derived from common sources or roots--- but
that does not necessarily lead us to the conclusion that those words
(klokke, Glocke, clock, etc.) were spread by Irish priests of the 8th or 9th
centuries (many of whom were Welsh, Scots, and Breton). And, despite the
fact that Bishop Wulfila, in his translation of the Bible from Greek to
Gothic, used only "skilla" for a bell (cf. NHD "schellen"), several place
names in Eastern Romania and the Crimea suggest that bells (or ringing
clocks?) had a "clok" element in that language long before Celts were an
important superstrate influence on their early Germanic.

Your tale of development, very interesting though it is, carries on the
baggage of too many assumptions without presenting further evidence for each
step of the journey.

I have no doubt that you do your research thoroughly and well. You have
indeed provided many insights and much wisdom to the Lowlands-L group, and
command much respect among all of us. It would be even more helpful,
however, if you were to give us the occasional URL or other reference site
to accompany your contributions.

Gee, I hope it's clear this time, Heather! Absolutely no offense intended,
and apologies are in order if I have offended you.

Arthur
ARTHUR A. JONES

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From: Obiter Dictum <obiterdictum at mail.ru>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.03.07 (01) [A/D/E]

Elsie het geskryf:

> - Die kwajongens het skotvry uit die skoolhoof se kantoor gestap nadat hy
> hulle oor die gevare van vrugtestelery gewaarsku het.
> - Toe is die saak van die rol geskrap en die hoenderdief skotvry daar weg!
> -Moenie dink jy is skotvry nie; m?re kan jy my help gras sny!

Dankie Elsie, ek store altyd jou en Mark se voorbeelde. :-)

Мarcel het geskryf:

> "According to ATF, the Scots (the inhabitants of Scotland) are the same as
> the Scythians; as he explains to us, the argument that confirms this is
that
> the Scythians bred skot (`cattle' in Russian) [NC 2:252].
>
>  A A Zaliznyak, 'Linguistics according to A. T. Fomenko',
> Uspekhi Mat. Nauk 55:2 162-188, 2000"
>
> I do wish mr Fomenko a lot of *Uspekhi*.

Marcel... skot (cattle' in Russian). Right. To the point. In terms of manure
management. Bullshit!.

I do wish Fomenko the Skatologist lots of the same :-)

Groete,
Vlad Lee.
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