LL-L "Etymology" 2007.05.06 (02) [E/German]

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L O W L A N D S - L  -  07 May 2007 - Volume 02

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From: Jonny Meibohm <altkehdinger at freenet.de>
Subject: LL-L "History" 2007.05.06 (01) [E]

Beste Theo,

Du schreyvst:

> Generally is accepted that 'bourg' in French
> place-names is of Latin origin., i.e. lat. burgus.

*DUDEN says:*

quote
Das gemeingerm. Wort mhd. burc, ahd. bur[u]g »Burg, Stadt«, got. baúrgs
»Turm, Burg; Stadt«, aengl. burg »Burg, Stadt«, schwed. borg »Burg« steht
wahrscheinlich im Ablaut zu dem unter Berg behandelten Wort und bedeutete
demnach ursprünglich »[befestigte] Höhe«. Frz. bourg »Marktflecken«
(Bourgeoisie) ist aus dem Afränk. entlehnt. ... Wie diese großen, mit
Erdwällen befestigten Fluchtburgen nannten die Germanen auch die ummauerten
Römerstädte und -kastelle »Burg« (z. B. Augsburg, Regensburg oder die
Saalburg im Taunus). Seit der Karolingerzeit gab es außerdem befestigte
Herrenhöfe, was zum Begriff der Ritterburg geführt hat. Burgen all dieser
Art konnten zu mittelalterlichen Städten werden (z. B. Würzburg, Nürnberg,
s. unter Berg), sodass mhd. burc schließlich »Stadt« bedeutete (dazu
Bürger). Auf diese Entwicklung hat auch lat. burgus »Kastell, Wachtturm«
eingewirkt, das über griech. pýrgos »Turm« möglicherweise ebenfalls aufs
Germ. zurückgeht

Duden - Das Herkunftswörterbuch, 3. Aufl. Mannheim 2001 [CD-ROM]

unquote
I didn't read these red sentences, but I'd never heard anything like
*-burg*used in Italian placenames.
That had made my decision easier ;-), because OED/Harper writes:
  *borough* <http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=borough> O.E. *burg,
burh* "castle, manor house, fortified place" (related to *beorg* "hill"),
from P.Gmc. **burgs* "fortress" (cf. O.N. *borg* "wall, castle," Ger.
*Burg*"castle," Goth.
*baurgs* "city"), from PIE **bhrgh* "high," with derivatives referring to
hills, hill forts, fortified elevations (cf. Welsh *bera* "stack, pyramid,"
Skt. *bhrant-,* Avestan *brzant-* "high," Gk. *Pergamos*, name of the
citadel of Troy). In Ger. and O.N., chiefly as "fortress, castle;" in Goth.
"town, civic community." Meaning shifted M.E. from "fortress," to "fortified
town," to simply "town" (especially one possessing municipal organization or
sending representatives to Parliament).
( http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=borough )

Allerbest!
Jonny Meibohm

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Surely burgus is a Germanic loan in Latin!  In fact, the Oxford English
Dictionary states that it is a Germanic loan in Late Latin.  In Germanic you
can trace it (e.g., *berg-an 'to shelter') while in Romance you can't.  So I
certainly go along with Jonny in this regard.

However, at least in theory French -bourg (like other Romance names, such as
the Castilian name Burgos) could still be derived from Latin. In that case
it is a Latin loan, not a Germanic loan, even though Latin originally
received it from Germanic.

So what in the case of Normandy?  The area was the new home of
Scandinavians, i.e. North Germanic speakers.  Latin is supposed to have
received burgus from West Germanic, not from North Germanic.

So, what are the possibilities?

   1. The West-Germanic-derived Latin word was applied to place names in
   Normandy, irrespective of the Scandinavian origin of the new settlers.
   2. French -bourg is not derived from Latin but from Scandinavian.

Does Old Scandinavian have a cognate?  Yes, apparently only Old East
Scandinavian, roughly Old Danish and Old Swedish: borg. An early Old Saxon
loan (considering geographic proximity)?  Old Saxon has burg (> Middle Saxon
burg, burch, borg, borch > Modern Borg).  Furthermore, Gothic, whose origin
is somewhere in today's Southern Sweden, has baurgs.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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