LL-L "History" 2007.05.08 (01) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L  -  08 May 2007 - Volume 01

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From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.05.06 (02) [E/German]

Does Old Scandinavian have a cognate?  Yes, apparently only Old East
Scandinavian, roughly Old Danish and Old Swedish: borg. An early Old Saxon
loan (considering geographic proximity)?  Old Saxon has burg (> Middle Saxon
burg, burch, borg , borch > Modern Borg ).  Furthermore, Gothic, whose
origin is somewhere in today's Southern Sweden, has baurgs .

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

Regarding Norse place names in Normandy, I can only find two so far:

- Briquebec, which would possibly equate an English *Brickbeck*, or more
likely *Birkbeck* (that one actually exists).;
- Hambye, which without the "e" on the end, wouldn't look out of place in
Lincolnshire or Leicestershire.  *Hamby* would actually be an Old
English/Norse hybrid, since "ham" and "by" both effectively mean the same
thing - the place appears to be called "village-village"!

The presence of a Saxon root in Normandy, if that's what it is, is
interesting.  The Norse equivalent of "ham" would be "heimr", so I wouldn't
expect a modern "ham" form to arise from that.  The Saxons did settle in the
Loire Valley, so there is a possible connection there.

Paul Finlow-Bates

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: History

Thanks for bringing this thread back home, Paul.

As for Briquebec, I wrote the following:

   - Bricquebec = Briquebé (/brikbe/) < *Brekbekk "slope brook"

Hambye is indeed a very interesting one, especially if it is connected with
Hamby in England.  Your literal translation "village village" already points
at it.  At first it seems "typically British" in the context of Germanic
place names, in that apparently the same word appears in different
languages, the second of which is Scandinavian.  But we need to be very
cautious here.

Ham- can be derived from more than one source:

   1. < Old English -ham < *hám* 'town', 'village', 'manor' < "home"
   2. < Old English ham(m) or Old Frisian ham, hem, him 'meadow land
   enclosed by a ditch', cf. Low Saxon Hammham and Western Flemish
   3. Old Northern French *ham (cf. Picard ham, hem) > dim. hamel >
   hameau 'village', probably derived from Germanic (see 1)
   4. < Saxon or Low Franconian ham < hame (e.g., Dutch haam, Westphalian
   Low Saxon Ham ~ Haam) 'to restrain', 'to hinder' > English
hame'curved piece in or forming a restraint collar for a draft animal'

Of course, the -by part makes Hambye look English.  It would be interesting
to find out how old the name is.  I don't think it is inconceivable that it
was taken along by people that left England with the retreating Normans.
Also, please bear in mind that Saxons haunted the coast of what are now
Flanders and Normandy (as well as Britain) even prior to settling in Britain
and that they settled here and there along that coast, which apparently
accounts for what seem like Saxonisms in Western Flemish.  I can imagine
place names with -by to have come naturally to alliances of Northern Saxons,
Angles and Jutes, as you find many such place names in Northern
Schleswig-Holstein, apart from Denmark.

So, as far as I am concerned, it's still a fascinating mystery.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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