LL-L "Idiomatica" 2007.05.30 (02) [D/E]

[Lowlands-L List]

L O W L A N D S - L  -  29 May 2007 - Volume 02

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From: Roland Desnerck <desnerck.roland at skynet.be>
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2007.05.29 (03) [E]

Beste Lowlanders,
Hier ben ik dan nog eens. Ik heb het zeer druk gehad met mijn vertaling van
Kuifje (Tintin) "De Zwarte Rotsen" (l'Ile Noire) in het Oostends "Et Doenker
Ejland". Dit verkoopt als zoete broodjes ...
In verband met "blijven" (in het Oostends "bluuvn") ...
In het Deens en zo is "blive" inderdaad" de evenknie ("de weersplete") van
"worden" (to become). Als koppelwerkwoord is dit in bijna alle West-Vlaams
"komm"; ze komt groot = ze wordt groot ...
Interessant misschien voor Soenke ... In de Vlaamse visserij zei men nooit
"hij is dood op zee bij Schotland", "hij is gestorven bij Ijsland...", maar
wel: "hj' is gebleevn bie Sjhotland", "hj' is bie Iesland gebleevn", og so
videre ...
Dit komt omdat men vroeger geen communicatiemogelijkheden had en het is vaak
voorgevallen dat een "kopoazje" (bemanning) toch gered was en na weken of
maanden weer in de thuishaven opdoemde ... Men was niet zeker of ze dood
waren, ze waren wel "gebleevn"! De weduwe, wier man er niet was, was dan ook
een "stoppelweduwe" ...
Toetnoasteki én stêld et junder wêl ...
Roland uut Osténde, Stad an Zai ...

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From: Jonny Meibohm <altkehdinger at freenet.de>
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2007.05.29 (03) [E]

Beste Soenke,

you asked about the LS-term 'doud bliiven'.

Perhaps it's not so specifical Low Saxon as we could guess. In Standard
German we say 'er ist im Felde *geblieben'* about a soldier who died in a
war, 'auf See *geblieben*' about a sailor who drowned. In contrast to
this we find 'er ist von uns *gegangen*' etc.- all these terms used just to
avoid the 'crude' word 'sterben' / 'to die'.

Allerbest!

Jonny Meibohm

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From: Hugo Zweep <Zweep at bigpond.com>
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2007.05.29 (08) [E]

Beste Lowlanders
We can say "dood bleven" but don't forget that with Ome Loeks' peerd "haar
ik hom moar vreten geven, was e wel in 't leven bleven".

So there you are "dood bleven" or "in 't leven bleven". If only we always
had the choice.

Hugo Zweep

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From: Diederik Masure <didimasure at hotmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Idiomatica" 2007.05.29 (08) [E]

Interesting.
Norwegian (and Danish) got the verb from Low Saxon *bliven *(it replaced
older *verða *a.o.). Danish *blive* ('to become') is shortened to *bli *in
Nw./Sw., *but* the longer form *blive/-a *still exists, meaning* to drown *(to
remain at sea). Cannot be coincidence.
Funnily enough my Dutch (etym.) dictionary gives *blijven *the meaning 'to
remain alive'
 reuben at uniserve.com replies:

My understanding of the term 'doot bliewen' means to die. It appears to
have originated among the north coastal Low Saxons of Germany, many
of whom engaged in fishing and general seafaring. Some who engaged
in seafaring failed to return. In such case family members referred to
occurence as 'opp See bläwen.' This simply meant that the missing person
had died at sea. Apparently, this later developed into 'doot blieven.'

Cheers!
Reuben Epp
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