LL-L "Lexicon" 2007.11.23 (04) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

=======================================================================

 L O W L A N D S - L * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226

 http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands.list at gmail.com

 Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/rules.php

 Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org - lowlands.list at gmail.com

 Commands ("signoff lowlands-l" etc.): listserv at listserv.net

 Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html

 Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html

 Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]

 Administration: lowlands.list at gmail.com or sassisch at yahoo.com


 You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
 To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
 text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
 sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.


 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
 L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
 S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)

=======================================================================

L O W L A N D S - L  -  22 November 2007 - Volume 04
Song Contest: lowlands-l.net/contest/ (- 31 Dec. 2007)
 ========================================================================

From: R. F. Hahn < sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Lexicon

Jonny, folks,

Sorry I'm having to chase a postscript after my response.

Jonny, you were asking about the German saying *Kinder mit 'nem Will'n,
kriegen was auf die Bill'n*.

Proverbs, sayings and idiomatic expressions are usually lexicalized as whole
entities. They are memorized just like individual words are. It doesn't
matter if they fully, partly or not at all consist of native words. (For
instance, *ad hoc*, *ad nauseam* and *Veni, vidi, vici* are entirely Latin
but are used by a large percentage of educated English speakers.) Unless *
Bill* (feminine *Bille* in other dialects) is used in your local German
dialect (to denote 'buttock' or something else), its occurrence in the
German saying *Kinder mit 'nem Will'n, kriegen was auf die Bill'n* is
foreign, occurring as a part of a lexicalized saying. (Its origin may be a
Low Saxon saying: **Kinner mit 'n Willn kriegt wat op de Billn*.)

(By the way, in my house it got distorted and *Brill'n* 'eye-glasses' was
used in this saying instead, which is another process altogether: choosing
the closest-sounding native word that makes at least a little bit of sense.)

If you do regularly use *Bill* in this way in your German variety (and I
don't in mine), it would be a native word, an it would be morphologically
treated in the German way: nom. *die/eine Bill(e)*, gen. *der/einer Bill(e)*,
dat. *der/einer Bill(e)*, acc. *die/eine Bill(e)* (provided it retains its
feminine gender); cf. Low Saxon *de/(ee)n(e) Bill(e)* in all cases**.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

•

==============================END===================================

 * Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.

 * Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.

 * Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.

 * Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l")

   are to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at

   http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.

*********************************************************************
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lowlands-l/attachments/20071123/e983be96/attachment.htm>