LL-L "Phonology" 2007.10.23 (07) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

L O W L A N D S - L  -  23 October 2007 - Volume 07
Song Contest: lowlands-l.net/contest/ (- 31 Dec. 2007)
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From: Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2007.10.23 (01) [E/Z]

Hi, Ingmar:

Subject: LL-L "Phonology"

If I remember correctly, Older Afrikaans and / or certain "coloured"
varieties of Afrikaans show something similar to Scots in having
diphthonguized î, but unchanged û: 'y' as in St Afr 'y' / Dutch 'ij' in
words like 'ys', but 'uu' for St Afr/Dutch 'ui' in words like 'huus',
not 'huis'. But I'm sure our SA members can tell us more about this.

Yes, we call it afronding - the shape we put our lips in to articulate the
'U' the 'UU' 'UI' etc. My wife, who notwithstanding being Californian can
ordinarily handle the most arcane vowel-sounds, finds this too much, so I
suppose its too much to expect it of everyone.

In my youth people going for auditions in the Afrikaans service of the S A
Broadcasting Corporation esed to test people for their ability to pronounce
them, & if you couldn't you didn't get the job. that was until about the
early eighties, but after that they took a slacker line, which I take is a
pretty clear indication of the direction the Taal itself is taking.

I for my part see the merits of afronding. Slipping into the alternave makes
for far too many homophones for my comfort:
Luis = louse - lys = list
Huis = house - hys = to winch
Put = waterhole - pit = pip
Vuur = fire - vier = four
Kul = bamboozle - kil = frigid
& so on.

To accomodate the need for lucidity would bring into being other necessary
changes in Afrikaans, & as I have read, initial changes in a language are
not invariably good for the language. After all, language is for
communication, not so?

Yrs,
Mark

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From: Jorge Potter <jorgepot at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2007.10.23 (01) [E/Z]

Dear Ron,

I quote what Ingmar quoted from you.

It is exciting to be back in the group again, especially, since most of the
Dutch and a lot of the Afrikaans I can now read.

I am writing only to find out where the phonetic symbols you use are
located, so that I can learn them.

Tnx,

Jorge Potter

> Interestingly, while Saxon and West Flemish resisted all
> diphthongization, Scots did participate in the the diphthongization
> of /ii/ (the non-rounded counterpart of /uu/), at least to about the
> stage English was at in Early Modern (Elizabethan) English: /ii/ >
> [əı]; e.g.
>
> Saxon (ii): tîd > Tied, bî > bie, mîn > mien, lîna > Lien

> W. Flemish (ii): tîd > tied, bî > bie, mîn > mien, lîne > lien


> Scots (ii > əı): tíd > tide, bí > by, líne > line
> English (ii > *əı > aı): tíd > tide, bí > by, líne > line

> German (ii > * əı > aı): zît > Zeit, bî > bei, lîna > Leine
> Dutch (ii > əı ~> aı): tîd > tijd, bî > bij, lîne > lijn
>
> Incidentally, what is interesting is that (broad) Australian (and New
> Zealand) English is now beginning to undergo another round of this.
> What in other English dialects are [uː] (too, soon, boot) and [iː]
> (tea, eel, deep) have developed into "slight" diphthongs, something

> like [ʊʉː] ~ [ɤʉː] (too, soon, boot) and [ıiː] ~ [əiː] (tea, eel,
> deep) respectively, probably something very similar to the diphthongs

> English had in words like "house" and "tide" in late Middle English,
> just prior to the Early Middle English stage.
>
> I believe that this is the reason why what in other English dialects
> is [aı] (might, bite, p ie) Downunder had to shift to an open [ɑı]
> (that to many uninitiated people sounds like "oy") because /ɛı/ (mate,

> bait, p ay) became [aı] in order to distance itself from /ii/ (->
> [ıiː] ~ [əiː], meat, beet, pea) for distinction purposes. At the same

> time, /au/ (l ouse, crown, foul) shifted to [ɜʊ] to distance itself
> from /uu/ (-> [ʊʉː] ~ [ɤʉː], loose, croon, fool). This may have begun

> in Cockney and developed farther Downunder.

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Phonology

Hey, Jorge!

What a thrill it is to have you back!

Folks, remember Jorge? Those of you who came on board after his
(unceremonious) departure, please meet Jorge Potter, our returning
resident borinqueño
(Puerto-Rican)!

So, Jorge, by the sound of it you've become pretty serious about this stuff,
have done your homework and are willing to learn more. Great! I hope we had
a little bit to do with motivating you.  Keep it up, and you might get the
Kahuna to notice you (http://www.lowlands-l.net/treasures/kahuna.htm).

To get to your request ...

   - You can use all the special symbols I use if you use Arial Unicode
   MS font to read what I post, alternatively another large Unicode font
   (though few have quite as many characters). If you don't have it loaded in
   your e-mail program, just copy the relevant text and then paste it into a
   document MS Word or any other word-processing program and then highlight it
   ans assign to it Arial Unicode MS or whatever.


   - The characters you are curious about are those of the IPA
   (International Phonetic Alphabet). You can read up on them for instance
   here:
      - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Phonetic_Alphabet
      - http://www.arts.gla.ac.uk/IPA/ (with sound files)
      - http://www.paulmeier.com/ipa/charts.html (with sound files --
      excellent for beginners!)
      - http://www.unil.ch/ling/page30184.html (course)
      - http://www.omniglot.com/writing/ipa.htm


   - Most people use SAMPA, an e-mail format ASCII-based substitute for
   the IPA:
      - http://www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/home/sampa/ (scroll down to find
      extensions)
      - http://www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/home/sampa/american.htm (American
      English)
      - http://www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/home/sampa/english.htm (British
      English)
      - http://familientagebuch.de/rainer/2007/38.html#4 (converter,
      in German)

Don't be a stranger now, Jorge!

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

P.S.: Jorge, have you checked out our online presentations? Help will always
be appreciated.
http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/
http://lowlands-l.net/gallery/
http://www.lowlands-l.net/travels/
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