LL-L "Lexicon" 2007.10.24 (09) [E/LS]

[Lowlands-L List]

L O W L A N D S - L  -  24 October 2007 - Volume 09
Song Contest: lowlands-l.net/contest/ (- 31 Dec. 2007)
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From: Luc Hellinckx <luc.hellinckx at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon"

Beste Heiko,

You wrote:
> Wat is en Siedlung, op Platt so as t.B. in
> 1) "Bet El (hebräisch: בית אל) ist eine jüdische Siedlung im
> Westjordanland"
> 2) "The Eastern Settlement (Old Norse: Eystribygð, Icelandic:
> Eystribyggð)
> was the larger of the two areas of Greenland settled in approximately
> 984 AD
> by Norse farmers from Iceland"?
>
> I have searched my dictionaries without success. I have not even been
> able to
> verify the existance of the root word "siedeln" in modern Low Saxon.
>
> Any good suggestions?

Why not use the word "Kolonie"?
Older Dutch had "Volksplanting"; and "Kamp" is in Dutch not restricted
to military settlements.

Kind greetings,

Luc Hellinckx

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From: Heiko Evermann <Heiko.Evermann at gmx.de>
Subject: LL-L "Lexicon" 2007.10.24 (06) [E]

Hi Ron,
> I have seen siedeln 'to settle' and Siedlung 'settlement' used as German
> loans, but I'm not too happy with borrowing such basic words. I feels
> grating to me.
Borrowing can only be the last choice, if all else fails.
>
> Old Saxon has sedlio ~ setlio and ênsedlio ~ ênsetlio for 'settler', but
> no
> word for 'to settle' seems to be extant.
Hebb ik mi ok al dacht.

> As for your dilemma, I would simply paraphrase, which is the most natural
> way anyway. (Coming up with word-for-word equivalents tends to lead you
> into trouble.)
You always bring this suggestion comes up, whenever I need a word. It rarely
solves the problem. A fully grown language needs a huge amount of words.
When I want to write about the Eastern and the Western Settlement of the
Vikings in Greenland, I cannot use "the eastern place where the Vikings
built their houses" as the title in an encyclopedia.

> Dutch has woonplaats as one word for 'settlement'. LS (nee) Wahnsteed'
> (Wohnste,
> etc.) or (nee) Dörp seem fine to me, especially in the given contexts.
> Also,
> I have seen jöödsche Dörpen (literally "Jewish villages") used in the
> context of Palestine.
Hey, that sounds nice. I like "Wahnsteed". It is intuitive and it fits to
the general character of the LS language. Everyone will understand it. In
fact I think, it fits so well that one would not even notice if it really
was a new invention. That's the kind of solutions that we need.

> I think this would work in both contexts: Palestine and  Greenland.
That's right.

Thanks a lot,

Heiko

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Lexicon

Hi again, Heiko!

Nu gah mi maal nich an! Ik harr dat man bloots spijööksch meent, dat de
Dörpköters di bi de Büx wullt ... Man klaar was dat wull nich.  Eendoont ...

You wrote:

Hey, that sounds nice. I like "Wahnsteed". It is intuitive and it fits to
the general character of the LS language. Everyone will understand it. In
fact I think, it fits so well that one would not even notice if it really
was a new invention. That's the kind of solutions that we need.

I agree that this sort of thing is what is preferable. In actual fact, it's
only a quasi-neologism, because it's really a reconstruction, something that
ought to exist but seems to have fallen through the cracks. This is why it
sounds quite natural, I guess because it is natural and also reminds you of
German Wohnstätte. And you will in fact find Middle Saxon variants of
wanestede. And Old Saxon *wonostedi ~ *wunostedi sounds plausible also,
although I can't attest its existence. And what do you know? Middle English
has wonostede and Middle German wonestede with the meaning 'settlement',
'homestead', 'domicile'.

By the way, in "proper," "full" Sass spelling it would be Wahnstęęd' or
Wahnstääd'. I thought you might like to know. ;-) The second syllable has a
superlength vowel (not a diphthong), and the /d/ is therefore deleted in
many dialects, should in any case not be devoiced to [t], because it comes
from Stede.

Kolonie isn't bad, Luc. In fact, that's what Mennonites call(ed) their
settlements.

Kumpelmenten,
Reinhard/Ron
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