LL-L "Etymology" 2007.10.30 (01) [E]

Tue Oct 30 15:19:54 UTC 2007

L O W L A N D S - L  -  30 October 2007 - Volume 01
Song Contest: lowlands-l.net/contest/ (- 31 Dec. 2007)
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From: "Jacqueline Bungenberg de Jong" <Dutchmatters at comcast.net>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.10.28 (05) [E]

Hello Jonny, You say: "For my opinion it made a funny metamorphosis from O.E.
'to mislead', 'to hinder', 'to go astray' to its modern meaning 'to live',
'to exist' , 'to lie (upon)'. In modern Dutch

we know both "dwalen"  and "ronddwalen: as to roam and "verdwalen" as to get
lost. Since we can assume that in those very difficult times one had to
"dwaal" a long time before one could find a place to "dwell" (is that not a
perfect Ablaut?), and that if one did not find a place to dwell one was
"verdwaald" = lost. At least that part makes sense.

 You then say: , but in our LS: 'dweylen', 'dweelen' means G: 'schwanken',
'schlingern', 'umherwandern' (preferably used for the movements of a drunken
person), E: 'to wobble', 'to roll', 'to ramble'. An LS noun 'dweul' is G:
'Feudel', 'Mop', E: 'mop', and in Dutch 'dwelen(??)' also means E: 'to clean
with a mop'.

I would like to propose that if you see someone who is bent over and
cleaning the floor with a heavy piece of heavy fabric by swaying side to
side with one's backside (We call this action "dweilen" and the fabric  is
called a "dweil" ) it is not a pretty sight.

            On the other hand we have the word "dwaal" with meanings of
altarcloth, towel or napkin as an alternative form for "dweil"

            Van Dale gives the following etymology for both words: MD dwale,
dwael, dwele; MLG: dwele; OHG dwahlia, dwehila (towel) to go with dwahal
(bath) going back to gothic words for bath, baptism. In other words,
"dweilen" is giving the floor a bath with an old cloth.

At least it makes sense to me. Greetings Jacqueline
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From: Jaap Liek <ir.j.liek at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.10.28 (05) [E]

Beste Jonny,

In Dutch: verb = dweilen, noun = dweil
--
Jaap Liek <ir.j.liek at gmail.com>

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From: Sandy Fleming <sandy at scotstext.org>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.10.28 (03) [E]

> From:  "Ben J. Bloomgren" <ben.j.bloomgren at gmail.com>
> Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.10.27 (02) [E]

> Sandy and all,
>
> When you say "huish", are you using the ui like the Dutch orthography
> uses it, or is it pronoun ced, like my screenreader aledges, Hewish?

Ben,

It's pronounced "hewish" as your screenreader says. In fact it's spelled
"Hewish" in some place names, and there's a surname "Hewish" which I
suppose could be the same word.

Do you mind telling me how your reader informs you of both the spelling
and its rendered pronunciation of it? I was thinking of writing the
letters separately when explaining the spellings, but it would seem that
this isn't necessary.

Sandy Fleming
http://scotstext.org/

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From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.10.28 (05) [E]

From: jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology"

Beste Lowlanners,

these days I learned the English word 'to dwell' and its family.

For my opinion it made a funny metamorphosis from O.E. 'to mislead', 'to
hinder', 'to go astray' to its modern meaning 'to live', 'to exist' , 'to
lie (upon)'.

I don't find any related word in Standard German, but in our LS: 'dweylen',
'dweelen' means G: 'schwanken', 'schlingern', 'umherwandern' (preferably
used for the movements of a drunken person), E: 'to wobble', 'to roll', 'to
ramble'. An LS noun 'dweul' is G: 'Feudel', 'Mop', E: 'mop', and in Dutch
'dwelen(??)' also means E: 'to clean with a mop'.

My researches in etymological dictionaries didn't help very much, so I hope
one or some of you might be able to bring bright light into the darkness of
this curious development.

Allerbest!

Jonny Meibohm
I think Old Norse "dvelja" has a meaning more like Modern English

Paul Finlow-Bates

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From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
 Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.10.28 (03) [E]

All:

Thanks for all the "tun" information

Paul Finlow-Bates

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com >
Subject: Etymology

The English verb "to dwell" is weirdly interesting in that it seems to have
undergone quite a semantic stretch. It's original meaning seems to be
something like *"to go astray" or *"to lose one's way". Might this indicate
that "to dwell at a place" originally meant "to camp while lost out in the
wilds"?

As a transitive verb Old English dwellan means 'to lead astray', 'to
hinder', 'to delay. As an intransitive verb it means 'to go astray', 'to be
hindered', 'to be delayed'. This in itself is interesting in that the
intransitive verb practically forms the passive of the transitive version's
meaning.

Perhaps you can still find a remnant of the temporary aspect in a phrase
like "let's not dwell on this."

Old Norse has dvelja 'to delay', 'to retard'. Old German has twellan with
the same meanings.

Old Saxon has *fordwelan* 'to leave off', 'to cease'

Middle Dutch has dwellen 'to stun', 'to make giddy', 'to perplex'

Old German *gitwelan* means 'to be stunned', 'benumbed', 'torpid', 'to
cease', 'to leave off', 'to give up'

Old English past participial gedwolen means 'gone astray', 'gone wrong',
'perverted'

So something about "going wrong," "confusing" and "(temporarily) stopping"
seems to be going on here. This sounds familiar: being lost and confused.
(But you don't ask for directions if you have the Y chromosome.)

Related to this group appears to be Sanskrit ध्वॄ- dhvṛ- ~ धूर- dūr- 'to
mislead', 'to deceive', from Indo-Aryan **dhwel-* ~ *dhul-*.

And talking about such, let me take you back to our recent discussion about
"settlement" and "to settle." Did any of you boys and girls pay attention,
as I hoped you would, and make the connection between it and my preceding
diatribe about the "frequentive" or "iterative" suffix -l-?

So, if "settle" is related to "sit" and "set" -- which seems to be fairly
safe to assume -- then we must conclude that "to settle" and its cognates
were originally used to denote something like *"to temporarily settle/dwell
(as one does time and time again on a journey)."  So this may take us back
to the good old days on long journeys, perhaps migration.

So the phrase "to settle down once and for all" may be a bit of an oxymoron.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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