LL-L "Etymology" 2007.09.11 (06) [D/E]

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L O W L A N D S - L  -  11 September 2007 - Volume 06
Song Contest: lowlands-l.net/contest/ (- 31 Dec. 2007)
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From: Marcel Bas <roepstem at hotmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.09.11 (02) [E]

Hello everyone,

Ron, you wrote:


>Low Saxon has the word dol (doll < dolle) which originally meant  'crazy',
'crazed', 'raging' and now >also (and in some dialects only) means
'strongly', 'very much', 'very'. Dutch dol still means 'crazy', >'crazed',
'raging'.  They are clearly related to English "dull".  (How's that for
semantic divergence?)

>Low Saxon doll ended up in Missingsch and then in casual Northern German
with the meaning >'strongly', 'very much', 'very'.  Its German cognate is
toll (d > t, t > ts), originally meaning 'crazy', >'crazed', 'raging' but
nowadays being used more in the extended sense of 'great' (!).  This is how
doll >and toll came to coexist in the same language varieties.

In Dutch, a diminutive plural form exists: *dolletjes*. This means
'great,'like in German. Usually women would use the word.

I have found no specfic meanings in Carinthian, 'Austrian' and zürcher
Schwyzertüütsch.

Best regards,

Marcel.

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From: Roland Desnerck <desnerck.roland at skynet.be>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.09.11 (02) [E]

Beste Ron, beste Lowlanders,

In het Oostends kennen we: "dul" = boos, kwaad, vertoornd (angry) en vele
rijmpjes daarmee:
- zie je dul? sjhiet je broek vul!
- zie je dul? pist up e blow stintsje (nota: e blowe stain = arduin);
- zie je dul? kakt mul!
- zie je dul? sjhiet je broek vul zagemul, enz.

We kenne ook een toevoeging van "en holf" om een soort comparatief te
vormen:
z' is zie dullenholf: ze is erg boos;
z' is zie stoetenholf, z' is droevenholf: ze is zeer stout;
z' is zie zottenholf: ze is wat zotjes, wat uitgelaten;
z' is zie snéllenholf: ze is zeer mooi;
z' is zie frankenholf: ze is onbeschoft (z' hé zie e frank blad)

ze kwaam zie stéppenholf: ze kwam haastig gestapt;

In het Nederlands kennen we ook: ze is dol gelukkig = ze is zeer gelukkig!

Asjhepoester: heeft bij ons een "lange oe"...;
"poester" heeft bij ons twee betekenissen:
- varkenshoeder, koeienknecht (koejepoester)
- koffie met sterke drank (kon je als visser bekomen in een "poesterkafee"

Ron, Interessant is misschien wel - in verband met "as blazen: Assepoester"
- dat even uitblazen bij ons als werkwoord "verpoestern" is!

Toetnoasteki,
Roland Desnerck, Oostende, West-Vlaanderen

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Bedankt, mannen!

Dear Roland, this is really interesting information about Western Flemisch
poester (which would be written Puuster in Germany) in relation to Low Saxon
Aschenpüüstersch and Western Flemish Asjhepoester (which would be spelled
Aschepuuster in Germany), all meaning Cinderella.

Let me rephrase what you shared.

poester:

   - swineherd, cowherd (also koejepoester "cow poester")
   - coffee with a shot of liquor (also poesterkafee "poester coffee")

In Low Saxon, a Püüster means "blower" and may be used to mean "bellows" or
"flint" (which you have to blow on when there are sparks).  This is why I
thought Aschenpüüstersch means "ash blower."  However, now that you
mentioned those Western Flemish words with poester I'm reminded that there's
also the Low Saxon word Grapenpüüster (literally "saucepan püüster") meaning
'(female) cook' in the sense of "cooking servant" (besides the word Kööksch.

So now it looks as though this Püüster ~ poester originally meant something
like "servant (in a household or on a farm)," and Aschenpüüstersch really
means something like "servant girl of the ashes (= hearth)."

So comparing notes between language varieties does make things easier,
doesn't it?

I wonder what the origin of this word is and if (Schleswig-Holstein) Low
Saxon Pastüür ~ Postüür 'unpleasant person', 'mean woman' has anything to do
with it.  About this word I hazard to guess that it was ultimately derived
from Latin pastor via French pasteur 'shepherd'.  (øyr > y:r is a widespread
Northern rule.)  Maybe originally Pastüür ~ Postüür denoted a servant that
worked outside and with animals as opposed to a servant that worked inside
the house, and later it came to denote any servant that performed menial,
dirty jobs, and finally it came to denote an unmannered, "nasty" person.
This is just an off-the-cuff theory.

Thanks again for the lead, Roland!

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

P.S.: Please spare a thought for those that perished in New York City six
years ago today and for those they left behind.
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