LL-L "Etymology" 2007.09.14 (01) [E]

Fri Sep 14 20:47:05 UTC 2007

L O W L A N D S - L  -  14 September 2007 - Volume 01
Song Contest: lowlands-l.net/contest/ (- 31 Dec. 2007)
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From: Helge Tietz <helgetietz at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2007.09.13 (05) [E]

Hi Lowlanders,

Considering the origins of the English word "bat" I somehow feel tempted
that it might have "Lowlandic", possibly Dutch-Flemish origins because "bat"
is very much a part of the Lower Franconian and even Ripuarian and
Middle-Franconian vocabulary and means "to help, to support". Its use is
even documented as far south as the southern parts of Rhineland-Palatine
(ref. Friedrich Engels, Fraenkische Zeit), a common sentence is "et bat all
nix", meaning "it didn't help" or "it didn't work". But it is not part of
the Lower Saxon dialects, at least not in Sleswig-Holsten and I don't know
whether it is present in any Frisian dialect. If it is it might very well
have Anglo-Saxon roots, otherwise it might have entered the English language
from Lower Franconian areas such as Flanders.

Regards,

Helge

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From: Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2007.09.13 (06) [E]

 Dear Ron:

Subject: LL-L "Language varieties"

Is that "sousing" as in "smiting" or "knocking off one's pedestal," or is it
a typo for "rousing"?  I rather wish the latter is the case, for I certainly
did not intend to smite you in any way.  Anyway, as the German saying
goes, Unkraut
vergeht nicht, as we saw about one year ago.  ;-)

Sorry! A bit of family English there, I suppose. We would say 'behoorlik
gesous' - 'thoroughly sauced' (think of the ketchup bottle) where an
Englishman would say 'thoroughly peppered', like with birdshot, at a grouse
shoot or even an artillary bombardment. Well they do have a reputation - & a
stiff upper lip - to errr, uphold... Of course the assumption is that the
man or grouse that passes through it was either not necessarily or
alternatively not SERIOUSLY penetrated - by any of it.

Anyway, as we also say, '*Onkruid vergaan nie', *en 'n bietjie sous maak nie
seer nie, nê!

Ruth says Hi! back & thank you for the kind Rosh HaShana Greetings.

Greetings,
Us (Mark & Ruth)

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From: Paul Finlow-Bates <wolf_thunder51 at yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2007.09.13 (06) [E]

"Sousing", where I come from, is a soaking.  Sometimes in vinegar (soused
herring).

Paul Finlow-Bates

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Hi, Paul!

Yes, I'm familiar with the more commonly used "to souse" in the sense of "to
soak" or "to pickle" (as in "soused herring").  (See under "Did you know
this?" in my article: lowlands-l.net/travels/taste-fish.php)  It just didn't
make sense to me in the context, and this is why I looked for alternatives.

Oxford English Dictionary:

1. souse, v. [f.
SOUSE<http://dictionary.oed.com/cgi/crossref?query_type=word&queryword=souse&first=1&max_to_show=10&sort_type=alpha&search_id=ER4N-gGOs2P-10583&result_place=7&xrefword=souse&ps=n.&homonym_no=1>
*n.*1, or ad. OF. **souser*.] [Various parts of a pig or other animal, esp.
the feet and ears, prepared or preserved for food by means of pickling. --
a. OF. *sous* (*souz*, *soulz*, *soult*, = Prov. *soutz*, *sols*), or *souce
*, ad. OHG. *sulza*, OS. *sulta*, or directly f. the Germanic stem *sult-*(see
SALT<http://dictionary.oed.com/cgi/crossref?query_type=word&queryword=souse&first=1&max_to_show=10&sort_type=alpha&result_place=7&xrefword=salt&ps=v.&homonym_no=1>
*v.*1 and SILT<http://dictionary.oed.com/cgi/crossref?query_type=word&queryword=souse&first=1&max_to_show=10&sort_type=alpha&result_place=7&xrefword=silt&ps=n.>
*n.*), whence also It. *solcio* pickle, condiment.

   - To prepare or preserve (meat, fish, etc.) by steeping in some kind
   of pickle, esp. one made with vinegar or other tart liquor.
   - To steep or soak *in* honey, oil, etc.
   - To plunge or immerse (a person, etc.) deeply or thoroughly *in* or *
   into* water, etc. Also with other preps. and without const.
   - To drench or soak with water, etc.
   - In 18th cent., to impose upon, to swindle, etc.
   - Of rain or water: To drown *out* (a fire).
   - To intoxicate thoroughly. Chiefly in pa. pple. Now *slang.*
   - To dash or pour (a quantity of water or something containing this).
   - To soak; to be or become soaked or drenched; to fall with a plunge;
   to go plunging or sinking in water, etc.
   - *dial.* To have a thorough wash.
   - To drink so as to become intoxicated, to carouse. *slang.*
   - To flow or fall in copious streams. *Obs.*

 2. souse, v. [Related to
SOUSE<http://dictionary.oed.com/cgi/crossref?query_type=word&queryword=souse&first=1&max_to_show=10&sort_type=alpha&result_place=7&xrefword=souse&ps=n.&homonym_no=2>
*n.*2] [A heavy blow -- Of obscure origin, perh, imitative; cf. MHG. and
MLG. *sûs* (G. *saus*, Du. *gesuis*, etc.), noise, din.]

   - To strike, smite, or beat severely or heavily.
   - With advs. or preps.: To dash *against*, knock or cast *down*, etc.,
   with or by a heavy blow or impact.
   - *absol.* To deliver heavy blows. *Obs.*
   - *intr.* To fall heavily or with some weight.

   <http://dictionary.oed.com/cgi/crossref?query_type=word&queryword=souse&first=1&max_to_show=10&sort_type=alpha&result_place=7&xrefword=souse&ps=n.&homonym_no=2>

3. souse, v. [f.
SOUSE<http://dictionary.oed.com/cgi/crossref?query_type=word&queryword=souse&first=1&max_to_show=10&sort_type=alpha&result_place=7&xrefword=souse&ps=n.&homonym_no=3>
*n.*3 2.] [Alteration of
SOURCE<http://dictionary.oed.com/cgi/crossref?query_type=word&queryword=souse&first=1&max_to_show=10&sort_type=alpha&result_place=7&xrefword=source&ps=n.>
*n.* 2a.] [*Hawking*. The act of rising on the wing, on the part of a hawk
or other bird. *Obs. -- *a. OF. *sors*, **surs*, **sours* masc., and *surse*,
*sourse*, *source* (mod.F. *source*) fem., substantival uses of the pa.
pple. of *sourdre* to rise or spring]

   - *Hawking*. *Obs.*
      - The act, on the part of a bird, of rising from the ground, as
      giving the hawk an opportunity to strike. Only in phr. *at *(*
      the*)* souse*.
      - The act, on the part of a hawk, of swooping down upon a bird.
      Also *fig.*

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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