LL-L "History" 2007.09.23 (01) [E]

Sun Sep 23 20:13:34 UTC 2007

=======================================================================

 L O W L A N D S - L * ISSN 189-5582 * LCSN 96-4226

 http://www.lowlands-l.net * lowlands.list at gmail.com

 Rules & Guidelines: http://www.lowlands-l.net/rules.php

 Posting: lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org - lowlands.list at gmail.com

 Commands ("signoff lowlands-l" etc.): listserv at listserv.net

 Server Manual: http://www.lsoft.com/manuals/1.8c/userindex.html

 Archives: http://listserv.linguistlist.org/archives/lowlands-l.html

 Encoding: Unicode (UTF-8) [Please switch your view mode to it.]

 Administration: lowlands.list at gmail.com or sassisch at yahoo.com

 You have received this because you have been subscribed upon request.
 To unsubscribe, please send the command "signoff lowlands-l" as message
 text from the same account to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or
 sign off at http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.

 A=Afrikaans Ap=Appalachian B=Brabantish D=Dutch E=English F=Frisian
 L=Limburgish LS=Lowlands Saxon (Low German) N=Northumbrian
 S=Scots Sh=Shetlandic V=(West) Flemish Z=Zeelandic (Zeeuws)

=======================================================================

L O W L A N D S - L  -  23 September 2007 - Volume 01
Song Contest: lowlands-l.net/contest/ (- 31 Dec. 2007)
 ========================================================================

From: Ron Bronemann <ronbron7 at yahoo.com>
Subject: LL-L "History" 2007.09.22 (03) [E]

In my home township in Jones County, Iowa, many Scots settled in the early
1800s.  However, they soon learned that they were unable to farm the land.
It was flat and very wet.  Many of them moved on to other areas.  This gave
the Low Saxony immigrants wonderful farmland.  They were able to use their
knowledge from Ostfriesland to improve the land with tiling and other
helpful farm practices.

Moin

Ron Bronemann

----------

From: "heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk" <heatherrendall at tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: LL-L "History" 2007.09.22 (01) [E]

Ron wrote:   An example are the Saxons a large portion of which migrated to
Britain, while the rest stayed put, probably absorbing others and finally
being overwhelmed by the Franks and their vassals.

I was reading Stenton's Anglo Saxon History this week and he made the point
that during the lull inbetween the 1st & 2nd invasion on the British
mainland ( supposedly because there had been a spirited defence and progress
had been halted) there were reports of similar incursions all along the
Northern coast of France.

This is the first time I have heard mention of A/Saxons trying their luck on
the continent. Can anyone put me in the way of other supporting information.
Many thanks
Heather [Rendall]

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: History

Hi, Ron!

I'm not sure if you have posted before, and I can't check because our
server, or at least our archive, is down right now. So, even if it isn't the
first time, let me welcome you.

I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one here that would be interested to hear
more about Iowa communities with ancestry in Eastern Friesland. (I prefer to
use the English name, or at least the Low Saxon name Oostfreeskland, to the
German one in English.)  Personally, I am particularly interested in
America-specific Low Saxon language varieties.

Hi, Heather!  Long time no post. It's great to hear from you to.  Is that
because it's become fall (autumn) and it's becoming uncomfortable sitting in
the garden what with cooler weather and falling tree fruit?

References to Saxons harassing the Continental and British coasts and even
settling as far west as French Flanders even before mass settlement in
Britain can be found in numerous books and articles, though I don't know of
any definitive source off the top of my head.  I believe that Robinson
mentions it, too (Orrin W. Robinson, English and Its Closest Relatives,
Routledge, 1992, which ought to be a must-read for people on this list),
though I don't have access to it right now.

This is what you find in the Wikipedia (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saxons):

A number of Saxons, along with Angles <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angles>,
Jutes <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jutes>,
Frisians<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frisians>and possibly
Franks <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Franks>, invaded or migrated to the
island of Great Britain <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Britain> (
Britannia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britannia>) around the time of the
collapse of Roman <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Empire> authority in
the west. Saxon raiders had been harassing the eastern and southern shores
of Britannia, for centuries before - prompting the construction of a string
of coastal forts called the litora Saxonica or Saxon
Shore<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saxon_Shore_Forts>and many
Saxons <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saxon_people> and other folk had been
permitted to settle in these areas as farmers long before the end of Roman
rule in Britannia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britannia>.

Apparently, medieval Saxons settled in Italy, France and the Balkans as
well. In France (Gaul) two groups of them met: those that had arrived by
boat, and those that had arrived overland by tagging along behind Lombards
(Langobards), their neighbors to the south, across the Elbe back in Saxony.

Love-to-Know (www.1911encyclopedia.org/Saxons), based on the 1911 edition of
Encyclopaedia Britannica:

*SAXONS,* a Teutonic people mentioned for the first time by
Ptolemy<http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Ptolemy>about the middle of
the 2nd century. At that time they are said to have
inhabited the neck of the Cimbric peninsula, by which we have probably to
understand the modern province of
Schleswig<http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Schleswig>,
together with three islands lying off its western coast. We next hear of
them in connexion with piratical expeditions in the North
Sea<http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/North_Sea>about the year 286.
These raids became more frequent during the 4th century,
and at the beginning of the 5th century the northern coast of
Gaul<http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Gaul>and the south-east coast of
Britain <http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Britain_%28disambiguation%29> were
known as *litora Saxonica,* owing either to their liability to the attacks
of the Saxons or, as some think, to the establishment of Saxon colonies
there. During the same period the Saxons appear to have conquered a
considerable portion of north-west
Germany<http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Germany>.
According to their own traditions they landed at Hadeln in the neighbourhood
of Cuxhaven <http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Cuxhaven> and seized the
surrounding districts from the Thuringians. It is clear that by the middle
of the 4th century they had advanced westwards into the basin of the Yssel,
from whence they drove the Frankish
Salii<http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Salii>into
Batavia <http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Batavia>.

I recommend: www.sachsengeschichte.de/ (German)

Though I don't remember where, I've come across references to possible Saxon
influences or substrates in coastal (Western) Flemish. While some of this
may be owing to Western Flemish and Low Saxon being possibly the most
conservative West Germanic groups of varieties, I have a feeling that a few
common features may not have sprung up independently, such as umlauted
diphthongs in words like peyrd (versus Dutch paard) 'horse'.  As a beginner,
I found spoken coastal Flemish easier to understand than Hollandish and
Brabantish Dutch.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron

•

==============================END===================================

 * Please submit postings to lowlands-l at listserv.linguistlist.org.

 * Postings will be displayed unedited in digest form.

 * Please display only the relevant parts of quotes in your replies.

 * Commands for automated functions (including "signoff lowlands-l")

   are to be sent to listserv at listserv.linguistlist.org or at

   http://linguistlist.org/subscribing/sub-lowlands-l.html.

*********************************************************************
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lowlands-l/attachments/20070923/c71bcee5/attachment.htm>