LL-L "Etymology" 2008.04.02 (05) [E]

Wed Apr 2 21:38:11 UTC 2008

=========================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L  - 02 April 2008 - Volume 05
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please set the encoding mode to Unicode (UTF-8).
If viewing this in a web browser, please click on
the html toggle at the bottom of the archived page.
=========================================================================

From: Marcus Buck <list at marcusbuck.org>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.04.02 (02) [D]

From: wim <wkv at home.nl <mailto:wkv at home.nl>>

> Over het woord inkuilen inkoelen,
> Hier in Salland inkuilen is wat je doet met gras, je kuilt het in, het
> wordt in een berg geperst en met plastic overdekt en met aarde, zo dat het
> verzuurt en als wintervoer gebruikt kan worden.
>
This word is unrelated to the word Jonny mentioned. Jonny better should have
written 'inkölen'/'inköhlen' instead of 'inkoelen' (I think 'inkeulen' would
be the right representation in Dutch). The sound written down as 'oe' in
Dutch or Dutch based spellings is written 'u' in German or German based
spelling. So your word 'inkoelen' is 'inkuhlen' in German Low Saxon. It
means 'to bury' or 'to lay in a hole and cover it with earth' or something
like that. What you are describing would be 'Silo maken' in Low Saxon.

Marcus Buck

----------

From: Jorge Potter <jorgepot at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.03.30 (07) [E/French]

Dear Roger Thijs and other Lowlanders,

The dictionary definition of *boudin* is exactly what we eat as *morcilla*.
No hot peppers. A big snack item here in Puerto Rico for between meals or to
munch in bars and help soak up the ethanol.

Jorge Potter

¡Hasta aquí habemos llegao!

----------

From: Mike Morgan <mwmosaka at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.04.01 (08) [E]

Johnny and all!

namaste from the town of the beautiful bay! (questionable etymology)

I only have a REAL suggestion ... for #3

> 3. Low Saxon 'quotern', in the meaning of 'to complain about something'.
On
> the very first glance it could be related to English 'to quote' in the
> farest sense of ' to quarrel about so./sth'.

I am afraid my Germanic asound changes are a bit weak, and my copy of
Weinreich (the father)'s history of Yiddish still in Japan, but I
would put my money (what little of it I have after taxes ... having
found out today that no matter how little I am paid as a foreigner I
pay 30% taxes, the maximum!) that this MIGHT be related to Yiddish
kvetshn קװעטשן ... though the primary meaning is 'press, squeeze', cf.
German quetschen 'squeeze'. This word in fact gives American (at
least) English "kvetch" in EXACTLY the sense of "to complain about
something" ... though with the adional sense of "habitually" (like
taxes?).

This is JUST a guess ...

MWM || マイク || Мика || माईक  || માઈક || ਮਾਈਕ
================
Dr Michael W Morgan
Managing Director
Ishara Foundation
Mumbai (Bombay), India
++++++++++++++++
माईकल मोर्गन (पी.एच.डी.)
मेनेजिंग डॉयरेक्टर
ईशारा फॉउंडेशन (मुंबई )
++++++++++++++++
茂流岸マイク(言語学博士)
イシャラ基金の専務理事・事務局長
ムンバイ(ボンベイ)、インド

----------

From: wim <wkv at home.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.04.01 (08) [E]

From wim verdoold

wkv at home.nl

zwolle Nederland

Hoi,

Over het woord inkuilen inkoelen,

Hier in Salland inkuilen is wat je doet met gras, je kuilt het in, het wordt
in een berg geperst en met plastic overdekt en met aarde, zo dat het
verzuurt en als wintervoer gebruikt kan worden.

In het Sallands "Parsvoer", in het hollands Kuilvoer,

Als ik het woord inkoelen zie moet ik daar met aan denken.

Hopelijk heb ik weer kunnen bijdragen aan de verdere verwarring…

wim
----------

From: Jacqueline Bungenberg de Jong <Dutchmatters at comcast.net>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.04.01 (08) [E]

Jonny found a new word:

   1. Low Saxon 'inkoelen'. All of us German Lowlanners should think it
   is 'to freeze down', G 'ein-kühlen', but according to my sources its meaning
   is 'to overheat (a room, house etc.)'. What could be the background of this
   word?

Jonny, could it be related to Dutch "inkuilen". A farmer will often store
winter food for his animals in a large "hole" (Dutch "kuil") and cover this
"kuil" with earth so that it will keep till needed. (cool in the summer,
unfrozen in the mild winters of Western Europe}?? Is that a possibility?
Jacqueline
----------

From: Soenke Dibbern <s_dibbern at web.de>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.04.01 (08) [E]

An'n Mi., den 02. Apr.'08, hett Johnny Meibohm dit Klock 01.15 schreven:

 From: jonny <jonny.meibohm at arcor.de>
> Subject: LL-L "Etymology"
>
 2. Low Saxon 'inkoelen'. All of us German Lowlanners should think it is 'to
> freeze down', G 'ein-kühlen', but according to my sources its meaning is 'to
> overheat (a room, house etc.)'. What could be the background of this word?
>
Maybe it's related to nds. "Kahlen/Köhlen" 'coals', so "inköhlen/inkoelen"
could mean something like 'to supply with (more) coals, heat up'

> 3. Low Saxon 'quotern', in the meaning of 'to complain about something'.
> On the very first glance it could be related to English 'to quote' in the
> farest sense of ' to quarrel about so./sth'.
>
My Grandma used sometimes a word "quedern" for 'to chat; to nag, grouch',
and I /think/ she mentioned once that she had picked it up during her time
as "Arbeitsmaid" on a farm in East Friesland in or before WWII. So the word
could of Frisian origin. But I think it's more likely that it is related to
nl. "kwetteren" 'to twitter; to chat'.

Hoolt sik!
Sönke

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Folks,

Please bear in mind the usual spelling pitfalls, such as **quotern* actually
being /kwaat-r-n/.  In other words, you are dealing with a long "a" that in
some German-based conventions is spelled "o" because that's what it sounds
closest to from a German standpoint, although it is not and does not behave
like a real long "o".

Yes, Low Saxon long "a" (/aa/), which in most dialects (as also in Western
Flemish) is pronounced with anything from slight to full lip rounding, very
often does correspond to /oo/ in other language varieties (such as
*Maand*'moon', 'month'). However, this is not a given, and in
etymological
sleuthing you must be constantly aware of the possibility that the phoneme
is /aa/ when you see "o" in German-based spelling of Low Saxon.

So, yes, it is possible that *kwatern* corresponds to **kwotern* elsewhere
(if it existed). I do actually believe it is related to *kwoþ-* (English and
Scots "quoth") 'to say', 'to utter'. In this case we are are encountering a
now familiar morpheme: habitual *-r- (thus *kwo**þ-r-*). So originally *
kwatern* would have been something like "to say things all the time."

We run into these additional problems due to differences of spelling systems
as well as the frequency spelling flaws, not to mention the absence of
standard spelling in some cases. This makes etymologizing a lot harder, even
when dealing language varieties that are so closely related. I therefore
suggest that we consider creating a web resource that lets people look up
the pronunciation (Dutch-style "oe" = /u(u)/, "uu" is /üü/, German-style
"uu" = /uu/, etc.). There could also be a sample table illustrating basic
sound correspondences. Such a reference guide would make it easier for
people to see the *phonemic* correspondences between the varieties without
being mislead by spelling problems (e.g. Low Saxon "uu" ~ "oe" = Dutch
"ui").

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lowlands-l/attachments/20080402/a1ecf930/attachment.htm>