LL-L "Phonology" 2008.04.28 (06) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

=========================================================================
L O W L A N D S - L  - 28 April 2008 - Volume 06
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please set the encoding mode to Unicode (UTF-8).
If viewing this in a web browser, please click on
the html toggle at the bottom of the archived page
and switch your browser's character encoding to Unicode.
=========================================================================

From: Dan Prohaska <daniel at ryan-prohaska.com>

Subject: Phonology

* *

*From what I gather the lengthening happened in the whole English speaking
area in the 9th century. The shortenings in the 14th century most
consistently happened in the South.*

*Dan  **

*
*"*From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Phonology

Thanks, guys.
Thanks for adding the Frisian thing to the mix, Ingmar. As for the Low Saxon
aspect, that's where I was coming from. This lengthening applies pretty much
throughout the language and in most cases of short vowels before all
sonorants. It's only in the Netherlands that these allophones have come to
be written. *Keend*, for example, is an attempt at writing short /i/ that is
lengthened ([ɪˑ] or [ɪː], [I:\] or [I:]).
And thanks for the compelling explanation, Dan. Since lengthening occurred
in Southern Britain only, I wonder if we are talking about the basic
lengthening trait of Saxon and Frisian. Franconian seems not to have
participated in this, with the exception of a few words (such as *aan* in
Dutch) which may belong to a Frisian substratum.
Regards,
Reinhard/Ron"

----------

From: Diederik Masure <didimasure at hotmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Phonology" 2008.04.28 (02) [E]

In front of nasals the Antwerp dialect only has lengthened /a/, but the /n/
kind of disappears/nasalises the preceding /ae/ which then arises. When
another vowel follows, the /n/ changes to /ng/ (and the preceding vowel is
slightly diftongised). hond = ongd, pronounced owngt, but hand = aend.

The dialect of the village where I grew up, however, (Zandvliet) has more
lengthenings when /n/ follows. Kind is pronounced kiend (not kijnd/keind),
onder is pronounced oonder, in front of -s the /n/ disappears and leaves a
long vowel too. According to the huge phonological atlas of Dutch dialects
that I once had in my hands, this lengthened vowel is nasal, but to my ears
it's either just a long, quite tense vowel or maybe VERY slightly nasalised
(but not very obvious!). Thus mens, ons = mees, oos. (according to the maps
in the fon. atlas me~:s, õ:s).

I don't know enough words in this dialect, but others that I remember are
bijne (binden), which is strange compared to kiend instead of kijnd. If I
were home, where I have my transcripts of words I collected I could find
several more (and try to see if this lengthening is regular) but alas I
don't have my papers with me... I think vinden could also be vijne, but
vinne is more common anyway.

And, as someone else mentioned, both Dutch and the dialects lengthen a lot
when /rC/ follows, the Antw./Zandvl. dialect a lot more than the standard
language. (Dutch: woord, waard, baard, staart, aars, kaars, boord, maart but
ver, derde, hard, kar. Antw. woord, weërd, board, steërt, oars (rather 'gat'
tho;)) keërs, boord, meërt, but ALSO vaer, daerde, aert (with a t! inflected
harde = aerte), kaer)

Diederik

From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
Subject: Re: LL-L "Phonology" 2008.04.27 (02) [E]

Well, English is not the only one, at least before nasal clusters.
Modern Frisian has long vowels in words like wyn, hûn, keunst etc (< wind,
hund, kunst). Many Low Saxon dialects in the Netherlands have: wiend,
kiend, guunst (< wind, kind, gunst), also present in some varieties of
South Guelders, Limburgish, Flemish. Brabantish has kijnd, keind. Twente
Low Saxon has roond, geunst, keend etc. Standard Dutch has fewer examples,
but eind/einde (< end/ ende) is one of them.
In these dialects, it has nothing to do with schwa dropping, it's just a
phonological lengthening before nasal clusters.
Lengthening also occurs with rhotic clusters in many NL dialects:
haard, waarm etc (< hard, warm), but usually not with L...

Ingmar
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://listserv.linguistlist.org/pipermail/lowlands-l/attachments/20080428/a56f34b9/attachment.htm>