LL-L "Projects" 2008.08.05 (03) [E]

[Lowlands-L List]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 05 August 2008 - Volume 03
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From: Travis Bemann <tabemann at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Projects" 2008.08.04 (01) [E]

> From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
> Subject: Projects
>
> Dear Lowlanders,
>
> As most of you know, our Anniversary presentation
> (http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/) is our most popular one in that it is
> visited far more often than our other presentations, although the other
> presentations are by no means ignored and on many days receive quite
> respectable numbers of visitors. (It tends to take a while for a
> presentation to increase the number of visitors as people pass on the URL
to
> each other and other sites link to it.)
>
> Judging by the numbers of "hits" individual pages of the Anniversary
> presentation receive on a daily basis, I am pleased to see that there is
> particularly much interest in lesser known languages and in non-standard
> language varieties.  People seem to jump at the opportunity to get that
type
> of rarely found information, which is also why quite a few educational
sites
> link to them.
>
> I believe that one of our weaker areas remains Scots, and that despite our
> Sandy's valiant effort to provide versions of the fable in two varieties
of
> Mainland Scots. Given the number of Lowlands-L members in and from
Scotland
> and those with connections in Scotland, I think we can do a lot better
than
> this. Not only would it be nice to have two or three more varieties of
> Mainland Scots represented (and a Borders dialect would be nice as an
> "in-between" considering our Glenn's Northumbrian version), but we should
> also have a version each in Ulster Scots, Shetlandic and Orcadian.
>
> Please bear in mind that there is a lot of interest in Scots out there, as
> well as in various English varieties. I am pretty sure we can do more to
> meet those demands.
>
> I have received several messages asking why there are no audio files for
> Scots. We really should have at least one, because people outside Britain
> and overseas Scottish circle don't know what it sounds like and really
want
> to know. Obviously, being deaf, it's very difficult for Sandy to produce
> audio files himself. I'm asking you to help with this, to make or have
made
> audio files for Sandy's versions and/or provide other versions with audio
> files.
>
> http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/scots.php
> http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/scots-lothian.php
>
> Audio files for the Northumbrian and Scottish English versions would be
> lovely, too, of course.
>
> http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/northumbrian.php
> http://lowlands-l.net/anniversary/english-scotland.php
>
> As I said, interest in English language varieties is quite strong. People
> all over the world study English and want to find out things beyond
Standard
> varieties. I am sure we can accommodate this further than we have done so
> far. I strongly suggest all of you in and from English-speaking parts
> consider helping us with this (and this includes our Indian, Irish, New
> Zealander, Pakistani and South African friends). If you cannot produce
such
> versions and audio files yourselves, I'm sure you know people that can,
> people you can "bug" about it.
>
[snip]
>
> Please consider helping with this, and please write to me if you have
> questions, suggestions or promises.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Reinhard/Ron

The only problem I see with such is that there is no tradition of
putting most Anglic dialects outside of Scots to pen, unlike with many
Low German (incl. Low Saxon, East Low German, and Low Franconian)
dialects. In the case of most Anglic dialects, I honestly do not think
that most would know how to write them aside from 1) just using the
standard orthography with slight modifications for marking reduction
and cliticizatization, 2) using some largely a priori orthography, or
3) simply transcribing them using IPA or like. Likewise, when one
excludes rural English English and Irish English dialects, which are
overall probably the furthest Anglic dialects from Standard English
outside of Scots, one also encounters the matter that any
modifications of, say, the wren passage to fit said dialects are
relatively minimal compared to that in Standard English if one is
writing in the standard English orthography, even if they sound quite
different from, say, RP or General American when actually spoken.

My own dialect, for instance, while phonologically quite different
from both RP and General American is, word-for-word, quite close to
Standard English. If I were to write down a version of the wren
passage in my own dialect, the vast majority of the differences
between it and the existing Standard English version of the wren
passage would be primarily due to differences in word choice and usage
between literary English and modern colloquial North American English
rather than differences in syntax, morphology, or word choice between
English dialects. Any differences of any consequence would only be
really visible in an audio recording or in an accurate transcription.
For instance, here is my version of the wren passage:

***

The wren used to have his nest in the garage. One day the old ones had
both flown out - they had wanted to get some food for their young -
and had left the little ones all alone.

After a while, Father Wren comes back home.

"What happened here?" he says. "Who hurt you, children? You guys are
all really scared!"

"Oh, Dad," they say, "some big bogeyman just came by now. He looked
really fierce and horrible! He stared into our nest with his big eyes.
That scared us a lot!"

"I see," Father Wren says, "where did he go over to?"

"Well," they say, "he went over that a-way."

"Wait!" Father Wren says, "I'll go after him. Don't you guys worry
now, children. I'll get him." With that, he flies after him.

When he comes around the bend, it is the lion who is walking over there.

But the wren is not afraid. He jumps on the lion's back and starts
yelling at him. "What business do you have coming over to my house,"
he says, "and scaring my kids?!"

That makes the little loud-mouth yell at him even more fiercely. "You
have no business being over there, I tell you! And if you come back,"
he says, "well, then you'll see! I don't really want to do it," he
says and finally lifts up one of his legs, "but I'll break your back
with my leg like that!"

And with that, he flies back over by his nest.

"There you go, children," he says, "I've taught that one a lesson. He
won't be back."

***

As you can see, when actually written in the standard English
orthography, the differences from the existing literary English
version are relatively minimal, and are generally more a matter of
colloquial usage versus literary usage. And as there really is no
tradition of actually writing down many English dialects, such as my
own, it is pointless to really create a new orthography that would
more accurately represent such, as there would probably be few who
could easily know what it actually was meant to indicate.

----------

From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Projects

Thanks a lot, Travis. I certainly see you point.

In such cases I would personally like to have an audio file and/or an IPA
transcription to go with the story written with ordinary spelling. Nice too
would be a brief introduction to some of the characteristics and the history
of the dialect or dialect group, and this would then be linked to the
general introduction to English. If the dialect intro is really short we
could have it appear on top with the acknowledgments. But people don't have
to go through all that. An English (or whatever) version with an audio file
and/or an IPA transcription would be great.

People are particularly interested in what a variety sounds like.

You, Travis, and everyone else, please let me know if you can and will do
that. Also let us know if help is needed. Some people have recording
capabilities but either aren't aware of it or don't know how to do it. There
are people on the List that can give you instructions.

As for audio files, you can record straight onto your computer with a
microphone, or you can use a digital recorder (which you might be able to
borrow if you don't own one) and then upload the recording. Very
importantly, please be aware that you need not read the thing through in one
swoop. You need not start afresh if you stuttered, coughed or made some
other bodily noise (and I can keep a secret), or a car went by the house,
the cat meowed, the dog barked or the rooster crowed. Just continue
recording, repeating anything that needs to be redone (but *whole sentences*,
not just a word or two, because otherwise the intonation comes out wrong). I
can easily edit your recordings, will take out all the baddies and use only
the last versions in cases of repetitions. You can even talk to me
(briefly), giving me instructions. It's really no big deal. Of course, I
suggest you do it when it's relatively quiet around you, preferably not with
the TV or radio on, the kettle whistling, the shower running or the toilet
cistern refilling. Furthermore, I can convert recordings from other formats.
Preferred are .mp3, .wav and .ogg.

Give it a shot, folks!

Thanks and regards!

Reinhard/Ron
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