LL-L "Etymology" 2008.08.12 (01) [D/E]

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L O W L A N D S - L - 12 August 2008 - Volume 01
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From: Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.08.11 (01) [E]

Dear Ron:

Subject: Etymology

Dear Lowlanders,

If I haven't truncated your brief below it is because it's so concise.

You mention among others the Old English 'ge', which allows me, I think, to
broaden the brief to consider those other prefixes of relationship as they
are used in Afrikaans, 'be-, ge-, her- er-, ont- & ver-'.

I see Old Anglian texts in England use them in much the same way, although
the Anglo Saxon of Alfred & Cynwulf does not to the same extent.

May I note that the Old English survives fossilised in the words 'aback,
ajar, allow, etc' together with others in the same line, 'beset, beribboned,
because',  bewildered, & 'undertake & understand' (as apposed in the
lattermost case to under-achiever, under-pinnings & under-lie, in which the
first part actually means 'under')

I am wondering about the fate of the little old word *ja* and its relatives
denoting 'and', 'yet', 'but', etc. What, if anything, has become of it in
the modern Germanic languages?

Gothic *jah*
Old Saxon *ja*
Old English *ge*
Old Low Franconian: *joh*
Old German *ja*
Old Norse* ja*

Are Scandinavian *og*, *och* etc. for 'and' related to it?

Is Finnic (at least Finnish, Estonian, Livonian and Votic) *ja* for 'and'
coincidental? Probably, since Veps has *da* and Karelian has *ta*, and these
seem to be related.

Regards,

Mark


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From: Roland Desnerck <desnerck.roland at skynet.be>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.08.11 (01) [E]

Beste Ron,

Ik denk dat de Scandinavische voegwoorden "ok", "og" verwant zijn met
Nederlands "ook" en Duits "auch".

We kunnen trouwens zeggen:

En Piet go mee!
Ook Piet go mee!

Anderzijds: En Piet god ook mee!
Wij horen ook wel "oke" voor "ook". "Gie oke?" Jij ook?

Als voegoord hoorden we vroeger ook wel:
Jan mé Piet: Jan en Piet.

"Mé" = met.
"Méd uus" = met ons.

Toetnoasteki,

Roland Desnerck
West-Vlaanderen

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From: Diederik Masure <didimasure at hotmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Etymology" 2008.08.11 (01) [E]

Norwegian/Danish 'og' and Swedish 'och' come from Old Norse 'ok', originally
the unstressed form of 'auk', cfr. Dutch 'ook'/German 'auch', meaning
"also", but in Old Norse also meaning "and". This word is in its turn
related to the Old Norse verb 'auka', modern Scandinavian öka/øge/øke/auke
etc. meaning 'to increase', Latin 'augere'.

In older Old Norse 'auk' and 'ok' both occur, but later in time the
unstressed 'ok' seems to take over generally. For the change of unstressed
-k to -g, cfr. the pronouns ek/jak, mik, sik etc. > eg/jeg/jag, meg/mig,
seg/sig etc.

The spelling with -ch in Swedish is just a fancy schmancy remnant of an
older spelling, I guess probably because the final -g once upon a time was
pronounced as a spirant. But in the compound "också" meaning "also"
(Norw./Danish "også" with g) it is written with -ck-.

In most Norwegian and Swedish dialects it is pronounced as a long o (å), but
in Swedish standard speach the final ch may be pronounced, I think as /k/
(or /g/?). In Danish I've always heard it with vocalised -g, sounding more
or less as "ow".
In D and S og/och only means "and", where også/också has taken over the
other meaning "also", in Norwegian both uses occur.

Helsing, Diederik

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology

Thanks, guys.

And the mentioned Scandinavian words are, of course, related not only to
West Frisian *ek* 'also' but also to English "eke" (< *éaca*) 'addition',
'supplement', 'augmentation' (archaic), and "eke" (~ arch. *eche* < *écan*,
*íecan*) 'to increase', 'to supplement', 'to augment' (Old Saxon *ôkian*).

Precontemporary Scots has both of these (spelled *eik,* *eyk*, *eike*, *eick
*, *eeke*, *ikke*, *eak*, etc.) as well as the adverb *eik* ~ *ek ~ eike ~
eyk* used pretty much like *ook* etc., meaning 'as well', 'also', but
apparently with the extra (original?) twist of "on top of it".* It seems to
have been archaic for a long time, for it appears mostly in poetry.

* e.g. *His onlie child and eik his dochter deir*

   - *Remembre eik opone the sorow*
   - *My hairt and mynd to the sall euer bend
   And to thy lawis and statutis eik attend*
   - *Feille folowit him on hors and eik on futte*
   - *A king thair was sumtyme and eik a queene*

But what about this vexing *ja(h)*?

Regards,

Reinhard/Ron
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