LL-L "Etymology" 2008.02.03 (07) [E]

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L O W L A N D S - L  -  02 February 2008 - Volume 07
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From: Luc Hellinckx <luc.hellinckx at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Delectables"

Beste Theo,

You wrote:

But -I hesitate to ask- but is there some brilliance
left among our lowlands-colleagues to say something
sensible about a other lowlandish word for swedes:
Wruken. Any idea of the word-family?


Read somewhere that "Wruken" and "Rauke" < eruca (Latin), which is also a
member of the Brassica family.

Kind greetings,

Luc Hellinckx

PS: According to http://www.etymonline.com, the "baga" in rutabaga is
cognate with English "bag" (and not with "back"/Backen/bacon...)

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From: Luc Hellinckx <luc.hellinckx at gmail.com>
Subject: LL-L "Delectables"

Beste Theo,

You wrote:

Moreover: I think that the old 'neutral' connotation
of *man* and *mens* are still surviving in old
expressions in germanic languages, e.g. in dutch 'een
manshoog paard' = 'a horse as high as a person'.

Indeed, e.g.:

"Er is 7 man op afgekomen" (~ 7 mensen)
"Alleman was aanwezig" (ieder-een, ieder mens)
the tribe of the "Alamannen" = all-men = all the people

Apparently, in the first two examples, "man" is invariably viewed as being
plural.

Kind greetings,

Luc Hellinckx

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From: R. F. Hahn <sassisch at yahoo.com>
Subject: Etymology


I wrote the following about the use of *wruk* or *wruuk* for 'swede' or
'rutabaga' in Low Saxon and it likely origin:

Apparently it's *wruk* or *wruuk* depending on dialects. I know that these
words are used in dialects of Mecklenburg and farther east.

<...>

Kashubian: *wrëk* [vrək]

That's [wr at k] in SAMPA.

For the benefit of those that didn't already know this, Kashubian (formerly
known as Cassubian) is a West Slavic language of the Lechitic (Lekhitic)
branch, is thus closely related to Polish as well as to Slovincian and
Polabian. (That means that it belongs to a different West Slavic branch than
Czech, Slovak and Sorbian). Of these, Slovincian has been extinct since
about the 1950s or 1960s (with the last speakers being refugees in West
Germany), and Polabian has been extinct since the late 18th century (with
the last speakers in eastern Lower Saxony, Germany).

Kashubian is really Modern Pomeranian, and its language movements tend to
identify it as Pomeranian, its names being interchangeably *kaszëbsczi jãzëk
* and *pòmòrsczi jãzëk* (but usually only *język kaszubski* in Polish). It
used to be spoken farther west as well, namely in what is now northeastern
Germany, along the Baltic Sea coast of Western Pomerania (German *Vorpommern
*, Low Saxon *Vörpommern*, Kashubian *Zôpadnô Pòmòrskô*, Polish *Pomorze
Przednie* or *Przedpomorze*) and apparently farther west in what is now
known as Mecklenburg in German (Low Saxon *Mäkelborg*, Kashubian *
Meklenbùrska*, Polish *Meklemburgia*, from Old Saxon *Mikilinburg* "LGreat
Fortress").

The interesting thing about Pomeranian Slavic is its longstanding
relationship and mutual exchange with the Saxon language on various levels
(and later relationship with German on a more official level). Many or most
Kashubians were bilingual in Kashubian and Low Saxon, and many knew Polish
and German as well. At the western end of the language range, Low Saxon
gradually took over until the Western Pomeranian varieties became extinct.
The remainder in Poland, namely Kashubian, has been classified as "severely
endangered."

I know that some Ph.D. work has been done about linguistic exchanges between
Low Saxon and Kashubian. But I find it hard to come by it.

Regards,
Reinhard/Ron
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