LL-L "Language varieties" 2008.02.19 (01) [D/E]

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L O W L A N D S - L  - 19 February 2008 - Volume 01
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From: Henno Brandsma <hennobrandsma at hetnet.nl>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2008.02.18 (01) [D/E]

> In a word, I agree that Zeelandic is not /the/ ancestor of Afrikaans.
> However, I do believe that the falling diphthong feature is likely to
> be a contribution, if not of Zeelandic alone, of southwestern Dutch
> dialects (possibly varieties with Frisian substrata, since they are
> predominantly coastal dialects).

These falling diphthongs are quite prominent in many conservative Hollandic
dialects, indeed.
Sometimes they depend on the consonant following, or even the historical
origin (as is the most original):
diphthong for old o: from "au" in Germanic, and plain o: for lengthened o/u
in open syllable.
Similarly for e: of 2 origins. It still exists, but it's getting rarer in
Hollandic dialects.
It could be that Afrikaans generalised 1 of these sounds.

> This begs the question if phonological feature selection in hybrids of
> closely related language varieties depends only on model predominance
> or also on native limitations and preferences/selection of those that
> approximate a set of model varieties. In other words, were falling
> diphthongs perhaps preferable to speakers of Malayic, Khoi-San and
> Nguni-Bantu languages?
>
> When we discuss such hybridization processes we might also bear in
> mind that the early development of Old English may well have followed
> similar patterns. In this case we may want to pay special attention to
> the possible role of Old Frisian and women, which may explain the
> Anglo-Frisian branch hypothesis.
>
> Musing,
> Reinhard/Ron
>
Mijn zoon werkte in 1983 aan de bouw van een papierfabriek in de buurt
van Nelspruit. Hij spreekt Nederlands maar kan Zeeuws goed verstaan
omdat hij thuis van mij niets anders hoorde. Het contact met Afrikaners
was relatief makkelijk omdat het hem vaak deed denken aan mijn Schouws
(Noord-Zeeuws).
Als voorbeeld herinner ik me nog vleis (=vlees in Nederlands)
Grt.
Jaap Liek

vleis for "vlees" is common in the whole of Holland, up to West-Friesland.
It also exists in Town Frisian mixture dialects, and is there a Hollandic
feature
(fleis). This was even borrowed into standard Frisian, although a few
dialects
preserve the original "flêsk" or "flesk" form.

Henno

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From: Mark Dreyer <mrdreyer at lantic.net>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2008.02.18 (01) [D/E]

Dear All:

Subject: LL-L "Phonology"

Now this is a most satisfying string!

With my apologies as a naïf, I would like to take my stand with Ingmar.
Reading from Jan Alleman's diary It is plain that the overwhelming majority
of VOC employees were 'outsiders'. The established trades included
merchants, clerks, shipwrights, riggers, & seamen. These blokes could not be
spared for putting up mere  'refreshment stations'. Those that could be
spared were market gardeners, husbandmen, carpenters & builders. Their trade
was not the sea. They must have been passed through the system below decks,
summarily incorporated into it, perhaps no more than just enough
to understand & take orders, likely chiefly the Zeelands bos'n with a heavy
hand, then passed out of the system, influenced by it but not totally shaped
by it.

Ingmar: I think that Afrikaans is mostly from 17 century Standard Dutch,
with a
lot of Zuid-Holland dialect. Probably this dialect was a bit closer to
Zeeuws in that time in some aspects than in the present, geographically
it's not too far to the Zeeland islands from Zuid-Holland.

Yrs,
Mark

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From: Ingmar Roerdinkholder <ingmar.roerdinkholder at WORLDONLINE.NL>
Subject: LL-L "Language varieties" 2008.02.18 (01) [D/E]

I found an interesting list of the first white settlers in the Dutch Cape
Colony by origin.
The largest group is from the Hollandic dialect area (Noord-Holland, Zuid-
Holland, Utrecht) with 73 persons. The second group is actually from
the "Low German area" in Germany, 68 persons, excluding people from Low
Saxon areas in the Netherlands, such as Groningen (5), Overijssel (6) and
part of Gelderland (16). 25 were from Scandinavia, Flemish Belgium gave 24
settlers.
But the striking thing is: only 7 out of 264 were from Zeeland.

Ingmar

(KLOEKE, G.G. 1950. "Herkomst en groei van het Afrikaans". Universitaire Pers,
Leiden)
Kloeke geeft uitsluitsel via een goed uitgesplitste statistiek.(C.
Rangschikking
der blanke bevolking volgens herkomst:)
Na aftrek van de niet- of niet-bevredigend-localiseerbare personen kunnenwe
de overigen als volgt naar herkomst rangschikken:
34 uit Noord-Holland ...
24 uit Zuid-Holland ...
15 uit Utrecht ...
12 uit Noord-Brabant ...
16 uit Gelderland ...
7 uit Zeeland
4 uit Friesland
5 uit Groningen
6 uit Overijsel
24 uit het Vlaams-sprekende deel van België (waarvan 6 uit Gent en 4 uit
Brussel)
3 uit Wallonië
3 uit Frans-Vlaanderen
1 uit Havre
68 uit het Nederduitse taalgebied
14 uit het Hoogduitse taalgebied
11 uit Noorwegen
8 uit Denemarken
5 uit Zweden
1 Schot
1 Estlander
1 IJslander
1 uit Bengalen (hier ressorteerende onder de blanken)
-----
264 in totaal. Daarvan 58 Hollanders, 147 Nederlanders (met inbegrip van
Vlamingen en Hollanders) en 82 Duitsers.
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